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Taking Ayahuasca In America

topic posted Sun, January 10, 2010 - 8:05 AM by  Unsubscribed
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Hello all,

Well, I recently heard that they outlawed ayahuasca vine...until recently one could buy it on Ebay! Of course, the aya drink for the journey is prepared with another herb indigenous to where the vine grows...so the vine alone as I understand it wouldn't be the right thing to take for the correct shamanic experience.

But what I wanted to know it, is there anywhere in the States where one can take ayahuasca legally...or under the radar? I've wanted to take it for about nine years, have read about it and seen documentaries on it...and honestly I wouldn't feel comfortable travelling to Peru to take the shamanic journey...although just going to Peru would be a shamanic journey. I think the travel stress might have an effect on the aya.

Feel free to msg me if you know. Thank you!

Blessed Be!

~ Eve
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  • Re: Taking Ayahuasca In America

    Mon, January 11, 2010 - 3:53 PM
    "Well, I recently heard that they outlawed ayahuasca vine...until recently one could buy it on Ebay! Of course, the aya drink for the journey is prepared with another herb indigenous to where the vine grows...so the vine alone as I understand it wouldn't be the right thing to take for the correct shamanic experience. "

    There seems to be misinformation here on a couple of points. Ayahuasca vine is outlawed in France, and preparations from the vine are illegal in Canada and Australia, though the vine as plant or plant material is legal there. But Ayahuasca vine and vine-only preparations are legal in the US.

    Although preparations with the DMT-containing admixture plants Psychotria viridis or Diplopterys cabrerana are illegal in the US, the plant materials are legal and available online.


    The second point of misinformation is that "the vine alone as I understand it wouldn't be the right thing to take for the correct shamanic experience. " Vine alone has its shamanic uses and is frequently used by Indians in the Amazon, even though admixture plants are usually used. Westerners tend to want and need strong admix, but throughout the Upper Amazon the Indians place more emphasis on the vine.

    If you are interested in Ayahuasca, and especially if you are even considering making and drinking Ayahuasca on your own, studying this post (including reading the links within it ) can give a basic foundational education about it:

    www.forums.ayahuasca.com/phpbb...ic.php


    As for the Santo Daime church, it is legal in Oregon, but you should learn about Santo Daime first before approaching them. The Santo Daime asks that at a minimum you read the preface to the book "Forest of Visions" , which is available online here www.forums.ayahuasca.com/phpbb...ic.php , before deciding that the Daime is what you want.

    There is a lot of info on Santo Daime available online, but at the forum on Ayahuasca Churches and Religious Groups at www.forums.ayahuasca.com/phpbb...um.php , you can ask questions about Santo Daime, and get answers from Daimistas.





    • Re: Taking Ayahuasca In America

      Tue, January 12, 2010 - 3:16 AM
      >>>Although preparations with the DMT-containing admixture plants Psychotria viridis or Diplopterys cabrerana are illegal in the US, the plant materials are legal and available online. <<<

      I am afraid this is a myth -- not that these plants materials are available online; they clearly are. But that they are legal. They are not.

      Under the Controlled Substances Act, if DMT is a Schedule I hallucinogenic substance, then so is “any material, compound, mixture, or preparation which contains any quantity” of DMT. Since chacruna and the ayahuasca drink are materials that contain some quantity of DMT, they are, by a plain reading of the statute, also Schedule I substances. Under this provision, it has generally been assumed that listing a major psychoactive component of a plant also lists the plant of which it is a part; for example, the Drug Enforcement Administration notes that, in listing the active ingredient cathinone in Schedule I, any material that contains cathinone, including its source plant khat, is automatically listed along with it.

      Every US court that has considered this question has held that plant materials containing DMT are also Schedule I substances. I know of no ruling to the contrary.

      Now I may be wrong. It has been known to happen. :-) But before you risk your liberty on what may well be an Internet myth, I urge you to consult a knowledgeable attorney.

      -- Steve
      www.singingtotheplants.com/
      • Re: Taking Ayahuasca In America

        Tue, January 12, 2010 - 11:56 AM
        "Every US court that has considered this question has held that plant materials containing DMT are also Schedule I substances."

        Could you provide some citations? That would be very useful.
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          Re: Taking Ayahuasca In America

          Tue, January 19, 2010 - 11:33 AM
          "Every US court that has considered this question has held that plant materials containing DMT are also Schedule I substances."

          DMT is a Schedule I substance. Possession of any amount is Illegal...

          With that said, Every HUMAN, including the Judge, Jury and Arresting Officer are in Possession of this Illegal Substance. LMAO

          That's right, under their own law, everyone, including the Law Makers are Violating it.

          In Fact, so is every Mammal on the Planet.

          So as long as your not selling it... You should be fine.

          Making Natural Neurotransmitters Illegal is counter-productive to the Human Race.
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            Re: Taking Ayahuasca In America

            Tue, January 19, 2010 - 11:40 AM
            "Every US court that has considered this question has held that plant materials containing DMT are also Schedule I substances."

            And that is not true Bro... DMT is the most common ethnogen on the Planet. Store bought Agaricus Bisporus (The ones in the Produce Section of your Grocery Store) Contain DMT. Acacia, Mimosa, Phalaris. The Possession of Such Plants IS NOT Illegal (in most US States). And I believe all of the them are Legal for Ornamental Purposes. However, any extraction of the DMT would be illegal...

            LMAO. I got some Schedule 1 Crimini...
          • Re: Taking Ayahuasca In America

            Tue, January 19, 2010 - 2:41 PM
            While there is certainly irony in the fact that a Schedule I controlled substance -- and not only dimethyltryptamine but also bufotenine is produced endogenously by humans -- that fact won't buy you much if you're busted for possession of DMT.

            I am pretty sure -- and I am too lazy right now to check -- that the issue was raised in the trial court in the UDV case. It took the court about three seconds to say that the DMT at issue in that case was not endogenous.

            I have been trying to think up a legal argument that would incorporate a claim that the Controlled Substances Act makes endogenous substances illegal, and therefore that possession of an exogenous controlled substance is legal, but I can't. If anyone can think of one, I would be really interested in hearing it.

            -- Steve
            www.singingtotheplants.com/
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              Re: Taking Ayahuasca In America

              Thu, January 28, 2010 - 12:33 PM
              If you have any amount of Pure DMT I am sure they will bust you and give you maximum minimum.

              Right now the best bet is Legalizing Ethnogens for Bona Fide Religious Ceremonies.

              "The legal status in the United States of DMT-containing plants is somewhat questionable. Ayahuasca plants and preparations are legal, as they contain no scheduled chemicals. However, brews made using DMT containing plants are illegal since DMT is a Schedule I drug. That said, some people are challenging this, using arguments similar to those used by peyotist religious sects, such as the Native American Church. A court case allowing União do Vegetal to use the tea for religious purposes in the United States, Gonzales v. O Centro Espirita Beneficente Uniao do Vegetal, was heard by the U.S. Supreme Court on November 1, 2005; the decision, released February 21, 2006, allows the UDV to use the tea in its ceremonies pursuant to the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. In a similar case an Ashland, Oregon based Santo Daime church sued for their right to import and consume ayahuasca tea. In March 2009, U.S. District Court Judge Panner ruled in favor of the Santo Daime, acknowledging its protection from prosecution under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act.[24]

              Religious use in Brazil was legalized after two official inquiries into the tea in the mid-1980s, which concluded that ayahuasca is not a recreational drug and has valid spiritual uses.[25]

              In France, Santo Daime won a court case allowing them to use the tea in early 2005; however, they were not allowed an exception for religious purposes, but rather for the simple reason that they did not perform chemical extractions to end up with pure DMT and harmala and the plants used were not scheduled. Four months after the court victory, the common ingredients of Ayahuasca as well as harmala were declared stupéfiants, or narcotic schedule I substances, making the tea and its ingredients illegal to use or possess.[citation needed]"

              en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayahuasca
              www.drugpolicy.org/news/022...court.cfm
              religious-freedom.suite101.com/ar...ent
              www.udvusa.com/
              www.santodaime.org/indexy.htm

              So Currently it is Legal for UDV and Santo Daime.
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    Caution

    Tue, January 12, 2010 - 12:13 PM
    Eve, I feel that taking ayahuasca might be too extreme for someone who finds traveling stressful. Also, for someone who finds traveling stressful, the illegality of taking the medicine in the states might be even more stressful. If traveling interfered with the medicine how is it that hundreds of people travel to South America over and over to drink the medicine?

    This medicine is incredibly powerful. If you are squeamish or easily stressed it might be too much. Please be careful and gentle with yourself!

    All the best.

    Also, if it is illegal everywhere in the states, it might be more suitable to go where it is embraced openly and where those who lead ceremony are experienced from generations of knowledge. I highly recommend going to the Amazon to meet the medicine where she resides.





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      Re: Caution

      Tue, January 12, 2010 - 1:19 PM
      Eve said, "I wouldn't feel comfortable travelling to Peru to take the shamanic journey...although just going to Peru would be a shamanic journey. I think the travel stress might have an effect on the aya."

      In traveling to Peru you would be traveling out of your comfort zone and into unfamiliar territory. You'd have to shed routines, habits, assumptions. You'd have to open up to this "other" place and learn how to get around, perhaps letting your curiosity guide you. As I see it, this could put you in just the right frame of mind to receive an ayahuasca experience.
      • and Santo Daime?

        Tue, January 12, 2010 - 8:48 PM
        Yes, what embrace and madeline said.

        And, on the other hand, I want to comment on the suggestion of going to Santo Daime in order to have an Ayahuasca experience. I have seen this suggestion on lots of forums -- "well, you could always go to the Santo Daime or UDV." Santo Daime doesn't exist for the purpose of giving people Ayahuasca experiences, and they know from experience that people just looking to experience Ayahuasca don't like Santo Daime works.

        The Santo Daime is not interchangeable with other Ayahuasca venues. For one thing, you would not be drinking Ayahuasca, but Daime, which is Ayahuasca that has been brewed in a ceremony called feitio and converted to the Body and Blood of Christ. The Santo Daime is focused on the Divine realms, and it is a collective ceremony, where people work to synchronize their energies together to create a channel for the Divine. It also contains the spirit of Ayahuasca, who is the spirit of the rainforest and brings the energy of the rainforest and the Earth, so spirits of both the Divine realms and the spirits of Earth and earthiness are there. As well, they welcome all spirits that work with the light as being on the same side.

        But, as I said, these ceremonies, or works as they are called (for good reason) are collective rituals. They are not about private individual experiences. They are a way of synchronizing people's energies together to create a greater channel for Divine energies than any individual could create. But the works are highly ritualized. You get told where to sit, as people are arranged in a particular geometric pattern based on height or some other energetic factor. You are told what to wear, and members wear uniforms. Men and women sit on opposite sides of the room. The lights are usually kept on, which tends to wash out the visuals. You have to try to =read= when you are under the medicine! Read an unfamiliar foreign language! And sing in an unfamiliar foreign language! Get those darn sparkles and rainbows out of the way, I can't see the words.

        Needless to say, Santo Daime is not everyone's "cup of tea." It is far too regimented for people who want to do their own private thing.

        Santo Daime is an actual religion, and you won't like it unless you are interested in the religion. You won't like it if all you are looking for is a way to experience Ayahuasca. I shouldn't say that -- there probably are people who originally came for that reason but once there got hooked. But they don't encourage people to come for that reason. If you want to go a Santo Daime church, at least in the United States, you have to persuade a member to sponsor you, do some required reading, and then pass an interview to show that you have some idea of what you would be getting yourself into. And that is assuming you can find a member in the first place, because the churches maintain a low profile even where they are legal.

        UDV is even more private and hard to get into.

        So, if anyone just suggests "UDV or Santo Daime" as an easy option for people to experience Ayahuasca, they should realize that these are acttual religions, not just generic Ayahuasca experiences -- much less interchangeable. If you approach an one of the Ayahuasca churches, you need to be actually interested in these entheogenic religions as religions.

        They are called "works" for good reason.
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    Re: Taking Ayahuasca In America

    Wed, January 13, 2010 - 8:08 AM
    Please bear with me as I toss out a thought that may be seen as confrontational. It is not spoken with the intent of confrontation but to trigger thought.

    If you look at different indigenous or shamanic belief systems, it can be see how the people relate to spirit is connected to the geography of the landscape (land features, water features, plants, and animals) around them. A possible study in this may be the subtle differences in different Native American beliefs / cosmology in different regions of North and South America. I would venture a guess that the same could be found in the different regions of Africa and Asia.

    I offer this (admittedly) very broad analogy: a shaman from Hawai'i would work with Shark as one of the local partners in their ecology, while a shaman of the Lakota living on the wide, grassy plains would honor Buffalo as part of their shared ecology. I think it unlikely, until modern times, the Hawai'ian would not know what a Buffalo was and similarly a Lakota would not know what a Shark was.

    A wise shamaness from Europe taught me to connect with the energy / spirit of the land in another geographic area in the manner the native population had done so for many, many years. When she started a workshop in New England in the USA, she would greet the local energy / spirits using a rattle made from the shell of a Snapping Turtle, a native resident of long standing.

    Where am I going with this ramble?

    If spiritual beliefs and practices are connected to the geography, including plants and animals, then is preparing and ingesting plant teachers such as Ayahuasca and Peyote best done in the geographic areas where they grow...AND WHERE THEY ARE CONNECTED TO MOTHER / FATHER EARTH? (the upper caps were for emphasis, not shouting) If you take a person out of their home geography and place them in a new space, it will take them, their physical systems, and their energy a period of time to adjust to the new setting. This is commonly referred to as jet lag. Do spiritual practices have a “lesser” effect if they are done outside of their original geographic area.

    There may also be the element of the remoteness of plant teachers so that people who are called to work with them have to “prove” their determination through physical, emotional, and mental determination to go through the requirements to physically get to where the plant teachers grow, showing they are committed to go to the depths of their person to do the work, facing whatever they face inside and outside of themselves. This could be a guard against people who want to only “skim the surface” of themselves, wanting the “experience” with no real commitment, dedication or determination. How much damage could be done to or by an individual without the proper intent and preparation for the work?

    In the end, these are my thoughts. They may be on-target or they may be a total load of compost.
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      Re: Taking Ayahuasca In America

      Wed, January 13, 2010 - 9:11 AM
      Interesting idea. Local flora and fauna aren't the only spirits you'll come into contact with when using the plant medicines and I'm not sure they care or distinguish between New York or Paris as the physical place of the body involved in the meeting. Your physicality, your body and it's whereabouts are only a piece of the encounter. How important is that? I've met giant river otters from the amazon on the banks of a small stream in the national forest in Northern California, only they weren't really in the physical space of the amazon, but in the realm of spirit or whatever you want to call the energetic realms the medicine opens up. We both were. They're choice to guide me and become allies wasn't tied to that place, but to something else. I think it's the something else, and the field of influence of the medicine that was the primary setting for our meeting. Drinking ayahuasca and communing with that medicine opened a pathway to what the medicine encompasses and brings. My part was in being open to receive and form alliance and to befriend the beings I came into contact with.

      I think the real altar is inside. Inside the realm the medicine encompasses and inside of me and the realms I'm able to open to there.
      Place is beautiful and presents it's opportunities to connect, and there is also a place within both the medicine and myself where we can be there without being there, and yet still honor that place and it's inhabitants. I think connecting in a sacred way and relating to each other isn't limited to the placement of bodies in the world, at least that's been my experience.
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      Re: Taking Ayahuasca In America

      Wed, January 13, 2010 - 7:32 PM
      Jorvik,

      "How much damage could be done to or by an individual without the proper intent and preparation for the work? "

      Or how much benefit can be derived? Yet do you think just the level of intent or commitment involved in going to meet the medicine where she is well rooted is enough to derive benefit from one or two ceremonies in the jungle?
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        Re: Taking Ayahuasca In America

        Thu, January 14, 2010 - 7:52 AM
        Let’s look at this from different perspectives.

        Can a person setting out to run a marathon do so through a training regimen of sitting on a couch watching television? Running a marathon takes time, effort, and work to condition the body, to develop a person’s stamina in order to be able to run the 26.2 miles from start to finish.

        Does the body a person who spends most of their time working at a desk, driving to/from work, sitting in front of a computer or TV have the physical conditioning and stamina to walk through jungle terrain?

        Does the psyche of a person who has not looked into the depths of their shadow and light have the agility and self-compassion to face and accept what they experience during a deep shamanic travel such as experienced with Ayahuasca?

        How many people have followed a spiritual path or participated in a spiritual experienced because it was the ‘in’ thing, or trendy thing to do? Compare this with the people who approach spiritual experiences as deep reaching moments in their life? Whose intent is more aligned with the intent of the spiritual path / experience? Who receives more? Who is willing to take more responsibility for what they experience, for their actions, for their life after the experience? Unfortunately, I have seen many people – too many people – take a spiritual path as a trendy thing, taking no responsibility for their experience, actions or life. Ayahuasca is something, to me, that requires us to take personal responsibility for our actions, our creations, and our lives both before and after working with Ayahuasca.

        I can say I am not ready to work with Ayahuasca, but am working to get myself to a point where I am physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually capable of doing so.

        Here’s a story from my experiences which may help illuminate my perspective on this. Back in 1994, I took Reiki training. I knew this was part of my path in life. My training was what I call the “McDonald’s method”, the fast food of energy healing training. I went from level zero to Master in a weekend, from Friday night to Sunday afternoon. There were 36 or 38 people in the class. Within a year all but 2 – myself and another - had burnt out and experienced major crises in their lives. The other person eventually went into a spiral of anger at herself and the world because she did not take responsibility for her actions or life (it was always someone else’s fault). I took 2 1/2 years to integrate what I had learned before putting it into practice, and still am reluctant to state my level of knowledge. One of the people in the larger group was very much filled with ego. She had told friends that if her house ever caught fire, she would be happy to get out with the clothes on her back. Six months after the training (cold November in New England), she was in her indoor hot tub when an unattended candle somewhere else in the house fell over and started a fire. She ran out of the house with only a silk bathrobe on. The interior of the house was gutted by the fire. Can you guess what her response was to this situation: it was someone else’s fault, dark forces were working against her. She, too, did not take responsibility for how she created the situation.

        Here’s a summary of my thoughts:
        Ayahuasca is in a remote section of the planet for a reason. Traveling to this region requires people work to prepare themselves for it – spiritually, physically, mentally, emotionally

        Fresh meats, fruits and vegetables we find in our grocery stores come from locations far from our own. We need to refrigerate most of these once we bring them home, to slow the decaying process. They have been removed from their source and are loosing their life force. Could the same also be said for transporting Ayahuasca out of its native environment?
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          Taking Ayahuasca anywhere

          Thu, January 14, 2010 - 8:37 AM
          Hi Jorvik,
          Thank you for such a thoughtful response to my question (by the way, I am far from an expert I am the medicine's humble devotee so please take any arrogance with a grain of salt). I have yet to see any evidence that those who are not "in shape" physically are not able to go to Peru for example to meet the Medicine there.

          As for ready in consciousness, I'm on the fence. I'm not very conscious and yet she called me and works with me, such as I am. (How am I doing, Jason? You are conscience on my shoulder! lol) Yet I had been extending great effort since childhood toward spiritual study and practice. I have met some who are into the hallucinogenic experience and are in party mode all the time yet they continue to drink.

          Bottom line is we are not nearly big enough in wisdom to know better than this extraordinary Dakini, Spirit, whatever you choose to call Her. If She calls you, She calls you. I say have faith from that point on in yourself and in the Medicine. Let go of any second guessing and especially self-doubt. If she calls you and you answer with the INTENT on meeting her she will assist you, guaranteed. Can anybody here attest to that? That has been my experience anyway.

          It is very very humbling because she will have you facing yourself more profoundly than you could imagine. She CAN go deep. Where and when or with whom is something I'm not going try to try to fathom. I'm just plan and simple filled with gratitude for Her blessings!
          • Re: Taking Ayahuasca anywhere

            Thu, January 14, 2010 - 12:09 PM
            I would agree with Embrace on this one. If you feel called, then try it either by going to Peru and finding a shaman (best found through recommendations), connecting with a more local circle, or experimenting on your own (if you feel especially daring). If you feel your not ready then wait. All the words and stories which are important to the story teller may or may not be important to others. Only you know if you feel compelled to visit with this amazing spirit guide and under what circumstances your would feel most comfortable doing so.
        • Re: Taking Ayahuasca In America

          Thu, January 14, 2010 - 12:48 PM
          Who is really ready to face themselves when it gets all to real? most likely no one
          Who can prepare for real mystical experience? um none
          Do bad things happen? yes
          Do peoples houses burn down because they are deserving? probably not

          Here's a summary of my thoughts:
          Aya grows on planet earth
          we live here
          some choose to consume
          some are not ready and don't 'get it'
          some do
          consciousness is not bound by location
          it encompasses everything
          most of my fruit and vegetables come from the local market
          they last a long time on the counter
        • Re: Taking Ayahuasca In America

          Thu, January 14, 2010 - 2:26 PM
          Jorvik, I am impressed by the depth and thoughtfulness of your posts.

          "How many people have followed a spiritual path or participated in a spiritual experienced because it was the ‘in’ thing, or trendy thing to do? Compare this with the people who approach spiritual experiences as deep reaching moments in their life? Whose intent is more aligned with the intent of the spiritual path / experience? Who receives more? Who is willing to take more responsibility for what they experience, for their actions, for their life after the experience? Unfortunately, I have seen many people – too many people – take a spiritual path as a trendy thing, taking no responsibility for their experience, actions or life. Ayahuasca is something, to me, that requires us to take personal responsibility for our actions, our creations, and our lives both before and after working with Ayahuasca."

          Yes, in effect Aya has some "gatekeepers" that help to keep people from rushing into it as the latest trendy thing. The difficulty of going to South America, the MAOI diet, the Purge, and other things make people hesitate and not rush into it. Patience and preparation are greatly rewarded in Aya work.

          And Aya is connected to the Amazon rainforest no matter where she is taken -- people who drink Aya anywhere in the world tend to mysteriously start feeling connected to the Amazon and feeling like saving the Amazon is very very important. She is the rainforest's secret weapon. Drinking Aya in the jungle, with the music of the jungle and the overwhelming energy of Plant spirits all around you, is indescribably magical and profound. But if you are =not= in the jungle, having a living Caapi vine sharing your living environment with you can greatly deepen your relationship with the brew. And if not the Vine herself, then =any= plant, because she is a mediator and translator between the Human world and the Plant world, she helps teach humans and plants how to communicate with each other no matter where they are. She can deepen your communication with the green life of your own bioregion. She is a unique being.

          (IMHV, of course.)
          • Re: Taking Ayahuasca In America

            Thu, January 14, 2010 - 3:00 PM
            Bottom line: IMHO of course :)
            No one will be given knowledge that the higher self doesn't think they are capable of handling at that time.
            And when the real gift of knowledge is realized it is given to you by yourself.
            This can happen by Aya, smoked dmt, 5-meo-dmt, lsd,dpt,mescaline,mushrooms, etc... OR
            no drugs at all.. through self practice and meditation. Because all that are just vehicles to a higher state of consciousness. So all this talk of taking 'mother aya' from her jungle homeland is not as real experience or to join my 'aya cult' you must do this and this and this is nonsense and anybody who thinks so is ego trippin and ought to pull head from ass to breathe some fresh air.
    • Re: Taking Ayahuasca In America

      Fri, January 15, 2010 - 11:28 PM
      Good point Jorvic. The shamans I've been with in Ecuador have an intimate knowledge of the spiritual properties of their territories. My spirit was once taken on a journey into a sacred mountain where another world exists. Having been on their ancestral territory gave them strength and courage that the medicine alone could not give them.

      A siona shaman once told me that there is a saying- that ayahuasca is for the strong ( macho) not for the many (mucho). If one cannot muster the courge to go to the jungle, one may not have the courage to meet the grandmother spirit of ayahuasca. The pilgrimage is part of the journey.
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        Re: Taking Ayahuasca In America

        Sat, January 16, 2010 - 10:48 AM
        Is it so courageous, to go to the jungle and sit with someone in a tradition they've been trained in they're whole life, or is it the safe path. It may even be the reasonable one to take. I think courage is present whenever anyone is willing to take the medicine, under any circumstances, and that people can benefit from it with some care and supervision where ever they are in the world.
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    Re: Taking Ayahuasca In America

    Thu, January 14, 2010 - 1:30 PM
    Oh, there definitely is - but, those connections - outside some churches or insular groups focused on helping specifc tribes - usually aren't passed around in public forms of course. Keep your ears open - the spirits may find you someday...;)
    • Re: Taking Ayahuasca In America

      Sat, January 16, 2010 - 4:46 PM
      There may even be plants that contain RIMAs & plants that contain NN-DMT growing right where you are living now. I realize that this is not Ayahuasca to the purist, but making friends with the local plant spirits is a good thing. Burning barrels & barrels of fossil fuel in order to travel to the amazon is somewhat damaging to the biosphere...
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        Re: Taking Ayahuasca In America

        Tue, January 19, 2010 - 11:42 AM
        "There may even be plants that contain RIMAs & plants that contain NN-DMT growing right where you are living now. I realize that this is not Ayahuasca to the purist, but making friends with the local plant spirits is a good thing. Burning barrels & barrels of fossil fuel in order to travel to the amazon is somewhat damaging to the biosphere..."

        Totally... And lets say someone had some strong Passion Flower Tea, then accidentally juices the wrong Grass, Like Phalaris Aquatica... Well, they would be in for an interesting morning.

        Disclaimer. I do not suggest any one should do the above...

        Om A Ra Pa Ca Na Dhih
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    Re: Taking Ayahuasca In America

    Tue, January 19, 2010 - 11:27 AM
    Yes you heard wrong. The vine itself, and by itself, does not contain any scheduled substances. Only Beta-Carbolines like Harmine and Harmaline. These MAO-Is are also found in Syrian Rue (Pegamun Harmala) and Passion Flower (Passiflora Incarnata). Passion Flower is by far the Cheapest and Easiest to get. Every Health Food store and Apothecary should have some. 1/2 oz of material per person per dose. If it is fresh, at the level, Harmine/Harmaline are ethnogenic in their own right. Have Fun and Be Safe.

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