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I am intending to find a way down to Peru, Ecuador or Brazil for ayauasca healings. Please recommend where i can go and who to work with. Any info, websites, or whatever to help me with this research is greatly appreciated. I would also appreciate any advice about preparation in the months prior to the ceremonies. With Gratitude, M
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Sun, August 24, 2008 - 3:04 PMit would help to know what it is you are looking for? are you looking for healing of diagnosed illness? are you looking to just clean and purify? for guidance, blessing, self-realization? is it spiritual? physical? mental? a combination of things? is your preference comfort or are you just as happy in a hammock? etc
many blessings for us all find our true healing and awakening -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Sun, August 24, 2008 - 5:50 PMSpiritual, physical and mental. I am looking to cleanse and purify, and for guidance, blessing, self-realization, awakening. I feel this is the next step on my spiritual path, especially in preparation for the planetary shifts we are evolving into and the role that I signed up to play in it all. I desire direction. I need to move beyond emotional patterns/peptides, addictions to guilt, self esteem issues, etc. Hammock is fine I suppose although never slept in one before. I am not looking for a vacation. I desire to go down and do some major work on myself in order to be a clearer vessel of light. -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Sun, August 24, 2008 - 7:47 PMMolly - As far as where: Iquitos in Peru, that's where the ayahuasca trade is truly booming and there are options galore. As for who to sit in ceremony with, based on recommendations from very legitimate and knowledgeable members of this tribe I would recommend Percy Garcia and Javier Arevalo. I haven't met either, but the recommendations for these curanderos comes from people who know what they're talking about, and whose intentions are transparent. Plus, the curandero I drink with recently sat with Percy Garcia and had nothing but really, really good things to say about him.
Hope that helps!
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Sun, August 24, 2008 - 9:20 PMThanks for your recommendations. I wouldn't want to go without establishing some connections first.. With so many options in Iquitos I wouldn't want to end up with people who didn't have the best of intentions and experience.
Blessings!
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Mon, August 25, 2008 - 7:42 AMTried the União do Vegetal ? Very clean, unlike that "other" group....:) You can check them out online: www.udv.org.br/ Yes, they are based in Brasil.
In love and light,
dimitri
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Thank you
Tue, August 26, 2008 - 11:53 AMI am feeling that i now have a direction in which to set my intention for creating a way down to the Amazon for ayahuasca ceremonies. Thank you all for you kind assistance.
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Tue, August 26, 2008 - 12:17 PMI recommend Blue Morpho tours. Go to Google and type in Blue Morpho.
I speak of Blue Morpho, the Maestros, the apprentices and the staff with the deepest love and respect. I have attended many sessions and have done many Dietas so I speak from personal experience.
Blue Morpho is a sacred place. It is sacred ground. People come to be healed. There are so many horrendous wounds to be healed. People come to release their personal demons and to repair their relationship to Spirit. This takes such courage, to change and to grow.
And at Blue Morpho people are healed and they do release their demons and they leave full of Spirit. It is awesome to see the change in people from when they arrive to when they leave. Blue Morpho provides a safe and sacred space for people to undergo incredible and major healing and Spiritual growth and transformation.
The Maestros, both Don Alberto and Hamilton, are just that, Master Shamans. They give totally of themselves to help every person who comes to Blue Morpho. They give 100% of their energy to maintain a safe and sacred space. The transformative and healing work that a person does at Blue Morpho is not easy. It is work. The Maestros, working with the plant teachers, guide people through this work and to connection with Spirit. They set the space in ceremony that allows all to experience the power of the Medicine and to be transformed. It is so very beautiful to see the Maestros as they work.
To attend or not to attend is a very personal decision not to be made lightly. Are you ready to let go of all that no longer serves your Spirit? If so, I do not hesitate to recommend Blue Morpho to you, to anyone. Reconnecting with Spirit, Love and Light, to our true selves, what else really matters?? Peace and Light, Victoria Carella.
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Tue, August 26, 2008 - 12:55 PMMany friendless, faceless tribe members often pop up to give very glowing reviews of Blue Morpho. I guess they are all legitimate, though there is no way of knowing since no one on here knows them from Adam (hence, friendless, faceless on tribe). Regardless, let's assume that Blue Morpho provides a very high quality service. There is then the detail of the finances. My understanding is that Blue Morpho charges very extravagant amounts of money for their services. If you seek all the comforts of modern society during your Ayahuasca journeys, and you can afford it, then Blue Morpho is the way to go. But for some reason all the recommendations that are posted for BM all sound the same, like, almost exactly the same, and always have this strange air of advertisement instead of recommendation. Maybe that's just how I perceive it though....
From what I've read on here, and personal connections through the real life web, Percy Garcia seems like the person to go to in Iquitos, and he only charges I think 350 US a week, a very reasonable price.......
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Tue, August 26, 2008 - 1:00 PMJust checked the Blue Morpho webpage:
9 Day Shamanic Trip: 1,790 per person
8 Day Shamanic Diet: 1,940 per person
and to boot:
"The minimum trip length is 5 days (Monday departure with Friday return). There is no discount offered for guests who need to schedule to leave early."
I defend the rights of people to go wherever they want, and certainly do not belittle the healing they may find there, but the more I find out about BM the more it sounds like a racket. How come the dieta is more expensive, when the participants are eating less? Strange..... -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Tue, August 26, 2008 - 6:11 PMwww.fidelandy.com/Fidel_Andy.html
i did 10 days of work with him in iquitos, though he is from ecuador. the healing and teachings i experienced were far beyond what i could ever have expected...and i went in to the trip with serious expectations and found him "by accident". his prices are MORE than reasonable and he does very good political and educational work as well
blessings on your journey
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Blue Morpho
Mon, October 20, 2008 - 6:05 AM
I am Hamilton Souther, owner of Blue Morpho. Over the last months many commentaries about Blue Morpho have appeared on the tribe forums. I have stayed out of the discussions as a way of supporting open communication about our business and practices. Due to inaccurate criticism by others who have never been to Blue Morpho, I have decided to respond, to offer the community of tribe the opportunity to know more about our practice as a center and work with Ayahuasca.
In 2001, at the age of 23, I was called to an apprenticeship in the jungle and found myself traveling into a very remote area of the Peruvian Amazon in search of Ayahuasca. I participated in my first ceremonies and knew that I would stay to continue apprenticeship. I built a modest jungle house, with the help of some locals, of palm thatch and plank wood floors along a tributary 24 hours travel from Iquitos. My house became part of a community of eight families. Upriver from our house there were no other permanent inhabitants. The area had only a small river into and out of it. There were no roads and no modern services. We were a five hour canoe paddle from the nearest store.
I began apprenticeship with a backpack and a machete independent of any other financial support. I was then 23 years old, living on my own in the middle of the forest, apprenticing in a traditional manner with a love and commitment to the medicine in my heart.
I realized that apprenticeship would take years and I needed a way to support myself while studying. I formed Blue Morpho with a local guide who specialized in jungle adventure trekking. I hoped that Blue Morpho would allow me to live a frontier life in the jungle.
My dream was to be able to support myself enough to be able to continue learning and living in the jungle. I lived for apprenticeship and the ability to continue participating in diets and ceremonies.
After our first year I knew that Blue Morpho would become a center dedicated solely to shamanism. At the same time I ended apprenticeship with the first shamans I had worked with and began training under the tutelage of Don Alberto Torres Davila. Don Alberto is a Maestro Ayahuasquero, Palero and Sanangero who has over 3,000 ceremonies of experience. He started apprenticing at the age of 8 under the tutelage of his grandfather. He came from a lineage of shamans that extended back to the Lamas people before the arrival of the Spanish. He had not worked with westerners before agreeing to work with us. He had worked as a traditional healer treating people from local communities in and around his home town.
After the first three months of apprenticeship with Alberto, I was accepted by Julio Llerena Pinedo (Maestro Ayahuascquero, Palero and Sanangero) as his apprentice as well. He became my grandfather maestro taking me under his wing as he had done for Alberto 30 years earlier. The two of them guided my apprenticeship, as they had been guided, taking me through diets and ceremonies. We entered into pacts of loyalty in the medicine to work together and to defend each other for life.
Apprenticeship was the hardest thing I ever imagined. I dedicated my life to it and to the medicine. I came to an understanding that you have to be willing to die for it. The tests of apprenticeship led me through the darkest fears and greatest terrors as well as physical illnesses and injury including being hospitalized on three occasions. Nothing mattered in comparison to being in ceremony and learning how to guide and direct the medicine. The medicine was the most beautiful thing I had ever experienced. My maestros guided me with very little verbal discussion about Ayahuasca and apprenticeship. The doctor spirits taught me directly through vision and realization. Ayahausca coursed through every part of my being transforming my mind, body and spirit.
I completed my apprenticeship and was granted the rank of Maestro by Julio in December 2004. Julio was 86 at the time and I was the last shaman to be granted the rank of Maestro by him. I had been given the right to drink and practice medicine on my own. I felt ecstatic to have lived through apprenticeship but I knew that my path was only beginning.
During my apprenticeship, I ran Blue Morpho where small groups came to our camp to participate in ceremonies and/or diet. We were a very small organization with only five of us working. I did the airport pickups, hotel reservations, tour organization, purchasing, administration, translating, guiding, boat driving, and camp managing. Blue Morpho was my passion as it allowed me to continue to participate in the medicine.
We had worked seven days a week for the first three years and still were not sure if Blue Morpho would survive. Then little by little Blue Morpho grew. After becoming a Maestro I began to see a future for us and the possibility that groups would grow in size. I decided that we needed to move location closer to Iquitos to decrease the travel time to and from camp and to be in an area that had access to modern support. I asked the spirits where I would find a piece of land suitable to our needs and they lead me to our current camp location on the Iquitos Nauta road. In September of 2005 we built the initial phase of our second camp and in November of the same year we began hosting groups. I designed the camp, buildings and layout including the architecture and construction. I built the center out of the love I had for the medicine and the guests who would experience medicine there. I gave the first camp to the local family that worked with us in gratitude for their faithful support through our early years.
In March of 2006 an article was published about the author Kira Salak’s personally transformational experiences at Blue Morpho in the National Geographic Adventure Magazine. www.nationalgeographic.com/adve....html Soon thereafter, people responded to the article expressing interest in Blue Morpho. We were presented with a challenge that guests wanted to participate in our workshops, not so much interested in the practice of Amazonian shamanism but rather for results. They wanted to transform. They wanted to be positively changed. They wanted to learn and grow. We developed a style that made Ayahusaca and Amazonian shamanism accessible and understandable to those with little or no shamanistic background or experience. Our guests began showing results as profound as the ones stated in the article. They left decades of depression behind in five ceremonies. They released every imaginable trauma or horror from their pasts. They were freed from the internal suffering of guilt and doubt. They transcended and met the infinite.
They experienced, firsthand, divinity and unconditional divine love.
We continued to expand our camp as demand for workshop spaces grew. We created a paradise in the jungle of gardens filled with flowering plants, extremely comfortable rustic and simple accommodations, and trained and organized a staff dedicated to supporting our work with each guest. Over the last two and a half years we have evolved and refined our presentation of our work. We are now a staff of full time and part time employees of over twenty.
The positive feedback from our guests is overwhelming and demonstrates the true impact it has on them. Each new group represents a journey into unconditional love through the guidance of the shamans and the phenomenal expression of Ayahuasca. Don Alberto and I continue to preside over all of our ceremonies.
At Blue Morpho we have worked to offer a space that is more than just participating in ceremonies. The transformational work with Ayahuasca can be the most intense experience of your life which may include violent movements of your body, chaotic mental spaces, interaction with many different kinds of spirits, huge swings of emotions or very dark visions. Considering how intense it can be, our method of working with Ayahausca has taken into account our guests’ various needs and how to meet those needs during their experience. We created a huge support system at the camp to make sure the experience is safe and that you are well taken care of.
A 9 day workshop includes:
Shamanism
• 5 Ayahausca ceremonies: Presided over by Maestros, apprentices and trained support staff
• Post ceremony discussions of individual experiences with Questions & Answers
• Question & Answers sessions with the Maestros
• Preparation for Ayahuasca Ceremony presentation
• Collection of Plants for the preparation of Ayahuasca
• Cooking Ayahuasca: You help prepare the Ayahausca that will be used during the week
• Medicinal Plant Walk
• Guided Meditations
• Camalonga Dream Journey
• Incan Fire Ceremony
• Blue Morpho Workbook
• Preparation for leaving Blue Morpho presentation
Jungle Excursions Activities
• Guided Hikes
• Self guided trail system
• Bird Watching
• River fishing
• Itaya River Swim
• Itaya River Boat Ride
Camp Layout and Accommodations
• Main House: Dining and Main Living Area
• Ceremonial House: All ceremonies and Hammock Lounge (during the day)
• 5 Bungalows: Sleeps 6 with private bedrooms with shared bathroom and living room
• Lake House: Guided Meditations, Yoga and Arts & Crafts
• Lake Gazebo
• Swimming lake
• Meditation Bungalows
• Apprentice House
• Staff Bungalow
• Staff House
• Brick walking paths between buildings
• Stunningly colorful gardens
• Trail System: Self guided hiking trail system
Meals and Services
• Varied generous menu offering our standard, vegetarian or vegan cuisine
• 24 hour coffee, tea and infusions
• Purified bottled drinking water
• Laundry Service
• Transportation from Iquitos to the camp and back
• Airport Pickup
• Hotel reservations
• Personal guided booking process
Safety
• Maestros on call 24 hours a day
• Apprentices on call 24 hours a day
• Registered Nurse at camp
• Two emergency vehicles
• Emergency satellite communication system
• Anti-Venom
• Extensive supply of western medicine for minor or travel related illnesses
• Fire Prevention and Safety Plan
• Staff certified and trained in emergency safety
• Prescreening of guests to make sure they are medically approved for the experience
Security:
• 24 hours security staff
• Individual lock boxes for valuables in private accommodation
9 Day Shamanic Workshop Sample Itinerary:
Meet at the Blue Morpho Office in Iquitos on Monday morning at 10:00 A.M.
Depart Iquitos at 11:00 A.M. to begin the one and a half hour bus ride to the Shamanic Center.
1st day / Monday
Arrival at Blue Morpho Shamanism Center
Afternoon - Medicinal plant walk
Evening - Orientation meeting, Camalonga Dream Journey (optional)
Meals: Lunch, Dinner
Arrive at the Blue Morpho Jungle Camp around 12:30 P.M. After settling into your private accommodations, go on a short walk around the area to familiarize yourself with your surroundings and return for lunch. After lunch at 3:30 P.M. go on group jungle walk to collect medicinal plant admixtures for the ayahuasca preparation and identify medicinal plants lead by Master Shamans Alberto Torres Davila and Hamilton Souther. Attend a presentation of the shamanic diet and preparation of diet plants, and then a group orientation meeting before dinner. Learn about the Blue Morpho history. Dinner will be served for those not participating in the Camalonga Dream Journey. The Camalonga Dream Journey requires an evening fast. After a savory dinner continue to get to know the other guests. Drink Camalonga a sacred teacher plant that teaches through dream journeys. For dieters, drink diet plants followed by an informal evening question and answer session with Hamilton Souther.
2nd day / Tuesday
Morning - Preparation of Ayahuasca, Discussion of Ayahuasca, Q&A with Don Alberto Torres Davila
Afternoon - Continuation of Q&A
Evening - Sacred Ayahuasca Ceremony
Meals: Breakfast, Lunch
Awake early to a hot cup of tea or coffee, and then begin the preparation of Ayahuasca at 7:30 A.M. Participate in the preparation of Ayahuasca (Sacred Visionary Teacher Plant) that will be used in our ceremonial work. Connect with its spirit through the beginning stages of preparation. After breakfast the apprentices will hold a meeting to prepare you for the ceremony of ayahuasca. After the meeting, meet in small groups with Don Alberto Torrres Davila for questions and answers. After lunch your last meal for the day, due to a mandatory evening fast before the Ayahuasca ceremony, help in the final stages of cooking Ayahuasca. At 8:00 P.M. begin the Ceremony of Ayahuasca with Master Shaman Curandero Alberto Torres Davila. Listen to sacred magical singing, Icaros, as the shamans conduct this sacred ceremony. After the ceremony adjourn to your bed and rest.
3rd day / Wednesday
Morning - Discussion of Ceremony, Guided Hike
Afternoon - Q&A with Hamilton Souther, Guided Meditation
Evening - Sacred Ayahuasca Ceremony
Meals: Breakfast, Lunch
After a nourishing breakfast we will have a discussion of the first ceremony. Share in the experience of others and the subsequent question and answer session. Continue your exploration of these diverse places connecting to Spirit. Before lunch take a guided hike through the immense forest. The afternoon activities begin with a Q&A session with Hamilton Souther. Afterward, prepare for the second ceremony by resting or participating in a guided meditation. As darkness falls prepare for our second ceremony.
4th day / Thursday
Morning - Discussion of Ceremony
Afternoon - Itaya River Swim and fishing
Meals: Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner
Work with apprentices to further understand the previous night’s ceremony. Hear the experiences of other guests and share your own. In the afternoon visit the Itaya River, a tributary of the Amazon and swim in the refreshing waters. If you would like, try catching some fish. Enjoy an evening meal, a welcome change after the previous nights' fasts.
5th day / Friday
Morning - Rest & Relax, Jungle hike medicinal plant identification
Afternoon – Q&A with Don Alberto Torres Davila, Guided Shamanic Meditation Journey,
Evening - Sacred Ayahuasca Ceremony
Meals: Breakfast, Lunch
Enjoy breakfast after a night of deep rest. Relax in the morning, and then participate in a jungle hike where the medicinal plants of the forest are explained by one of our apprentices. In the afternoon there will be a Q&A with Maestro Alberto Torres Davila and then a guided Shamanic Meditation Journey. Prepare for our 3rd Ayahuasca ceremony. See how much you have learned over the last 5 days.
6th day / Saturday
Morning - Discussion of different shamanic practices, Jungle walk
Afternoon – Q&A with Hamilton Souther Rest & Relax
Evening - Ayahuasca Ceremony
Meals: Breakfast, Lunch
After breakfast we will begin with a discussion of different kinds of shamanic practices. After the meeting go on a walk to visit the trees used in the Ayahuasca. Commune with the spirits of the trees. In the afternoon there will be Q&A with Hamilton Souther where we will expand deeper into the realms of universal spirituality As darkness falls, enter the amazing wonders and worlds of Ayahuasca in our fourth ceremony.
7th day / Sunday
Morning - Q&A with Hamilton Souther
Afternoon - Excursion Itaya river boat ride
Evening - Inka Fire Ceremony
Meals: Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner
Discuss the previous night’s ceremony or any other question that have come up during the previous 4 ceremonies. This afternoon explore more of the jungle on the Itaya river boat excursion. Look for rare species of flora and fauna. After dinner participate in an Inka fire ceremony to invoke the spirit world and offer our intents to Spirit.
8th Day / Monday
Morning - Final Meeting
Afternoon – Q&A with Hamilton Souther Rest & Relax
Evening - Sacred Ayahuasca Ceremony
Meals: Breakfast, Lunch
Apprentices will prepare the group for their return home. Learn how to bring the spirit world into your everyday lives. In the afternoon prepare for our last Ayahuasca ceremony through our final discussion of universal spirituality and shamanism. This ceremony will bring closure to our work. The shamans will offer individual venteadas (blessings and protection) to each guest. Bask in the glory and infiniteness of Spirit cleansed and transformed.
9th Day / Tuesday
Return to Iquitos
Morning - Pack and prepare for return, Group photos and photos with shamans, San Juan Arts and Crafts Market Excursion
Meals: Breakfast
In the morning, bathe to release the last effects of the previous night’s ceremony. After breakfast, pack and prepare for return. Take group photos and individual photos with the shamans. Depart the Shamanism Center at 10:30 a.m. On the way back to Iquitos stop to see and purchase local jungle arts and craft at the San Juan Arts and Crafts Market. Arrive in Iquitos at 12:30 p.m. renewed after an amazing 9 days with Blue Morpho. Busses leave guests at the Hotel Dorado.
Blue Morpho as a Business:
Blue Morpho was birthed out of Ayahuasca and the practice of Ayahuasca medicine. The principles of the medicine teach responsibility, love, acceptance and honesty and we have extended those principles into how we interact as a business. We stand behind our professionalism and commitment to integrity in the practice of medicine.
• The majority of our staff are locals
• Pay above standard wages including overtime
• Offer part time employees the same benefits as full time employees even though it is not obligated by law.
• Provide health care
• Double salary for Christmas and Independence day holiday
• Pay Severance
• Offer interest free loans to employees
• Provide transportation to and from work
Blue Morpho Charity:
Blue Morpho has offered charity from our inception. We have worked with local communities to donate
• Clothing
• School Supplies
• Medical Supplies
• Dental Hygiene Supplies
• Treat locals free of charge
Guest Feedback:
We have spent the last seven years making Blue Morpho a very professional operation. We have looked into the needs of our guests and have responded developing a camp environment and style that matches those needs. The positive feedback from our guests stands out. They have said that Blue Morpho
• Is like a second home
• That it saved their lives
• That they were no longer depressed
• That they were physically healed
• That they got a lot more out of it than expected
• That it showed them divinity and unconditional love
• That it brought them forgiveness and healing of past traumas
• That they found trust
• That all their needs were met
• That they felt safe and well taken care of
It is so beautiful to see someone shine after ceremonies finally relieved of their pain and suffering. It is fully rewarding to see someone that finally comes back to into their body and opens their heart having been through extreme traumas. It brings tears to the eyes to see someone finally freed of a life plagued with depression. Satisfaction is felt witnessing someone find “their life purpose” after realizations in a ceremony. These are all common results in each of our workshops. I have personally guided hundreds of people through these kinds of transformations. They learn that shamanism is not about ideologies, dogmas and belief systems but rather personal experience. It is about an exploration of love and life. They explore their essence of being alive.
We opened our hearts to our guests and freely shared the medicine. We share what it is and how it works, what we have learned and how we use it. Ayahuasca is not just drinking a tea made of different plants. The drinking of the plants opens the door to a whole world of spirits and medicine.
Our growth was dictated by demand. More and more people wanted to come and experience Ayahuasca with us. We built and grew to continue to share our medicine with the people that asked to come.
Many have decided to return to further their exploration of Ayahausca and themselves. They found Blue Morpho to be a place that was safe, where they could participate in this kind of shamanism and get out of the experience what they needed. They come back because they found that the experience at Blue Morpho is unique and not like any experience they ever had in their lives. It is a personal joy to get to see them again and continue to guide them through Ayahausca. It has allowed us to develop friendship with our guests. The larger groups have allowed our guests to develop friendship among themselves too. They have formed their own online forums staying touch and supporting each other through the transitional stages of change in the weeks and months after our groups.
Blue Morpho was born out of the medicine and is our love and passion. We have dedicated our lives to Amazonian shamanism and living the medicine. We hold over 100 ceremonies a year and I drink in every one. We live in the medicine and share it with those that come to our center. Blue Morpho is the living of my dream that started seven years ago with a vision to apprentice in Ayahuasca medicine.
We stand behind our professionalism and successes. We offer authentic, deep, and powerful personal experiences in an environment that is safe and comfortable. We do everything we can to make sure that each guest leaves Blue Morpho safe, sane and positively transformed through our work.
Sincerely,
Hamilton Souther
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Re: Blue Morpho
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 4:04 PMOkay, I've got something to say on topic, but since this is my first post here, I'd like to introduce myself for a second, if you don't mind. I've been lurking here ever since I used this tribe last year to gather some information about which retreat/camp to pick for my first meeting with Ayahuasca. I'm usually not really fond of online interaction with people and prefer eye-to-eye – but the people hanging out here, and the discussions going on convinced me to join in. It really seems like a great place, and frankly, after experiencing Ayahuasca myself, I'm dying to connect to people who also made this experience - none of my friends have, so in this respect I'm really isolated.
I've been pondering for quite a while to write about my experience with Blue Morpho, the only retreat I've been to so far. I've been following the discussions about the place around here with great interest, before and after I went, and felt maybe I should add my perspective – as I see the sharing of these as one of the highlights of this tribe. Since the talk about BM had somewhat died down over the last weeks, I hestitated to make this post, as I didn't wanna stir this thing back up, but since Hamilton did so himself...here it goes.
First some things about the more mundane aspects. The camp is simply great. It's comfortable, really enables you to relax and feel at home. It makes it easy for someone used to Western standards of living to not be distracted too much by the discomforts of the jungle and focus on their experience with Ayahuasca. There's enough stuff to do in your spare time if you don't need it to rest from the draining ceremonies – pretty much the things Hamilton described above. The staff is awesome, and helpful beyond measure, in and out of ceremony.
The shamans and apprentices...to my regret I don't really speak Spanish, so I couldn't really converse with Don Alberto. The man has an incredible vibe, down to earth, fearless and goodhearted. I lack comparisons, but I doubt that meeting other ayahuasqueros in the future will change my opinion that he is a truly great shaman, period.
The apprentices seem like a well-intentioned and professional bunch, although oftentimes they seemed very distanced, at least to me. I doubt that this is because of me, simply because I didn't have any trouble connecting to any of the other guests, nor did Don Alberto (despite the language barrier) ever seem anything but open. So that was a little strange, but again, I didn't really have any doubt about their intentions and professionalism.
Okay, about Hamilton. Overall I find Deryk's perspective in his recent post in the thread 'Blue Morpho experiences?' very fitting – especially the part about finding the middle. To do that though, I guess I have to go into my good and not so good impressions of him. I think he definitely is, like I said about his apprentices, a professional guy with good intentions. If his biography is indeed the way he describes it (I have no reason to doubt this), that commands respect as well. Then I'd like to take into consideration that he has the support of a guy like Don Alberto, and last but not least simply that so many people go there and have really great experiences with him, many of whom I witnessed personally.
On the other hand...I felt that same kind of being distanced with him as I did with his apprentices. It's true, he is on call 24hrs...you just get the feeling it should take something tremendously upsetting to actually disturb him...it didn't feel like I could just talk to him about anything.
Such a situation arrived for me in one ceremony, where I hit a pretty rough spot, and afterwards I just knew this was important, that this was somehow central to me dealing with my problems. I just couldn't figure out how...and especially not how to face that kind of situation again the next evening. So I tried to talk to him, and when we got around to it...he didn't really do much at all to help me. I started to tell him how the group atmosphere, that was a really cheerful one the night before, made me feel really excluded, to which he replied something along the lines of 'well it's not always fun for me either' and then he passed me on to an apprentice so they could give me a venteada. That was it. I don't know whether he had a bad day, or felt offended because he thought I was blaming my problems on the way he ran the ceremony (which I didn't)...and it's not for me to judge. All I know is, some more help, someone giving me some guidance, some hints at how to deal with this stuff would have been very beneficial.
So the middle ground for me is...I had a safe and good time during my stay at Blue Morpho, and I don't regret going there...while I haven't fully resolved my issues, the experiences there have provided me, and continue to do so, with amazing gifts. And for this I'm immensely grateful – to Hamilton, Don Alberto, the apprentices and everybody else at BM. For the future though, I'll probably be going somewhere else, as I haven't received the amount of guidance and close relationship to the healers I needed/hoped for at BM. Should someone dear to me decide to go and visit BM, I'd try to convince them to look into other options, but I wouldn't be worried if they eventually did go there. This is my middle-ground 'judgement' of BM.
Concerning the question of 'fear-mongering' when it comes to brujeria...I never heard Hamilton or anybody else make it look like all, or the even just the majority of the healers in Peru were brujos. They did however make brujeria seem like quite a big thing in general down there – and I remember Hamilton saying that all other camps had at least one complaint with the Peruvian government filed against them. I don't know if that's true, I didn't have any reason to think it was a lie. But even though I didn't, and while I think Hamilton is a decent guy - to say that, even if it's true, doesn't seem cool. He's probably as aware as anybody else here that many many people have great and beautiful and healing experiences in many of the other camps – so highlighting just these complaints when choosing to talk about your fellow practitioners just doesn't seem right.
On another note – I was sad to see that activity on this tribe has died down since the extended downtime, when before it seemed like a lot more was going on. I hope things go back to that eventually, now that I joined in – keep up the talking guys :)
Blessings,
Cielo -
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Re: Blue Morpho
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 4:11 PM''I hope things go back to that eventually, now that I joined in – keep up the talking guys :) ''
Okay, that sounds weird, let me clarify - it was not to say that I hope to see this tribe go back to that activity BECAUSE I joined in. I just thought it'd be a pity to have finally gotten around to joining, and then noone's around any more...that was the intended meaning...ahem ;)
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Re: Blue Morpho
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 4:31 PM>>>I remember Hamilton saying that all other camps had at least one complaint with the Peruvian government filed against them.<<<
Again, maybe a little context would be helpful here.
The legal system in and around Iquitos is very different from what North Americans are probably used to. It is very easy to lodge a complaint -- file a denuncio -- with the police. No evidence is required -- just an accusation. The person accused has very few rights, and can be hauled off to jail just on the word of an accuser. There is no presumption of innocence. The person accused has to prove the he is innocent, which can be difficult if he is locked up in jail. Money, power, influence, and often skin color can affect how things play out, and who gets a break from the police.
In addition, the labor laws in Loreto are quite stringent. Workers have a lot of rights over against their employers. This can be a good thing, but it also means that it can be difficult to fire a bad employee. Business disputes are common, and so are worker-employer disputes. A common tactic in such disputes is for one party to file a denuncio against the other, or for both parties to file denuncios against each other. That's just life in Iquitos.
So... I am not a bit surprised that someone says complaints have been filed against all the tourist lodges. It might well be true. I am just not quite sure what to make of it. :-)
-- Steve
speakingtotheplants.blogspot.com/ -
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Re: Blue Morpho
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 5:12 PMAs for the context, he was not talking about complaints with the police in Peru, but with the Peruvian government - via the respective Peruvian embassy. If my memory serves me, he made this statement while talking about the Peruvian government investigating the legal situation of the practice of Ayahuasca shamanism in the future. Sorry for not being clearer on that.
''It might well be true. I am just not quite sure what to make of it. :-) ''
Like I said, I don't know if it's true either. What to make of it...like I explained above, it was not in the context of brujeria or ''all those other camps are out to get you, only here you're safe'' - but anybody making a statement like that about their fellow practitioners without balancing it with some of the benefits of them should be aware that it gives the impression that BM is the best place. But well, maybe he was just careless and didn't intend it to come out like that, who knows.
I thought I'd include it in my review anyway because this issue of how BM makes other camps look like just came up here. I hope that's enough to somewhat put it in perspective :) -
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Re: Blue Morpho
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 5:36 PMThanks Steve, Cielo, and Alan and the rest of you for your respective perspectives on this subject and the situation in Iquitos.
I'm glad Hamilton has given his informational input here as well, and perhaps he will speak with us on some of these things..
Welcome, Cielo. I hope you will continue to share with us here. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Blue Morpho
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 6:15 PMI want to be very clear about one thing. I have nothing but the greatest respect for both Alan and Richard, and if they say that the behavior of the Blue Morpho people is unusual, then I am happy to believe that what they say is so. There are very few people with the kind of expertise and experience that Richard and Alan bring to this tribe, and I am very grateful for it.
My only point, really, was this: Sometimes people come to the Amazon with North American cultural assumptions -- which is perfectly natural, we all do it -- and then misinterpret what they see or hear. It's always good to have a little cultural context.
-- Steve
singingtotheplants.blogspot.com/ -
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Re: Blue Morpho
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 7:46 PMThanks Steve. I don't know if I quite fit into your accolade. But I'll accolade right back to you.
Cultural context is really important there. I remember a story from an AIkido student who lived in Japan for many many years. He said that when he first got to Japan, he quickly acclimated and rapidly understood the culture. After he was there for 20 years, he realized he knew nothing. Sometimes I feel like the Amazonian world is like that. We of the north have no real cultural context for the Amazonian mind and culture. It seems familiar, yet once you get to know it better, it seems to get, well, strange. Things are part of the belief system there that we don't have a real context for in our culture. Brujeria is certainly one of those areas. So can be the grayness between good and bad.
Not to mention that we northerners tend to come into the jungle with a sort of yogic mind set, thinking, perhaps unconsciously, that the shamans are like the gurus of the east. Certainly about as far from the reality of the situation as can be. -
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Re: Blue Morpho
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 6:08 AM>>>Not to mention that we northerners tend to come into the jungle with a sort of yogic mind set, thinking, perhaps unconsciously, that the shamans are like the gurus of the east. Certainly about as far from the reality of the situation as can be.<<<
I think that is absolutely right.
Psychologist James Hillman distinguishes between two basic orientations to the world, which he calls spirit and soul. Spirit, he says, is detached, objective, intense, absolute, abstract, pure, metaphysical, clear, unitary, eternal, heavenly. Soul, on the other hand, is mortal, earthly, low, troubled, sorrowful, vulnerable, melancholy, weak, dependent, and profound. Spirit means fire and height, the center of things; soul means water and depth, peripheries, borderlands. Spirit seeks to transcend earth and body, dirt and disease, entanglements and complications, perplexity and despair. But soul “is always in the thick of things: in the repressed, in the shadow, in the messes of life, in illness, and in the pain and confusion of love.”
Spirit “seeks to escape or transcend the pleasures and demands of ordinary earthly life.” Spiritual transcendence, Hillman writes, “is more important than the world and the beauty of the world: the trees, the animals, the people, the buildings, the culture.” Spirit seeks “an imageless white liberation.”
The transcendent orientation of spirit can be a way of escaping the messy demands of soul--a process that psychotherapist John Welwood, in a much-copied phrase, has called spiritual bypass. Buddhist meditation teacher Jack Kornfield puts the idea this way: “Many students have used meditation not only to discover inner realms and find inner balance but also to escape. Because we are afraid of the world, afraid of living fully, afraid of relationships, afraid of work, or afraid of some aspect of what it means to be alive in the physical body, we run to meditation.”
It is soul, not spirit, which is the true landscape of shamanism. Shamans deal with sickness, envy, malice, betrayal, loss, conflict, failure, bad luck, hatred, despair, and death--including their own. The purpose of the shaman is to dwell in the valley of the soul--to heal what has been broken in the body and the community.
Gurus are just fine for spirit; it is shamans who teach you about soul.
-- Steve
singingtotheplants.blogspot.com/
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Re: Blue Morpho
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 4:32 PM"thinking, perhaps unconsciously, that the shamans are like the gurus of the east"
funny thing is, I get the feeling even gurus from the east aren't the way people from the west think gurus from the east are.....lol.... -
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Re: Blue Morpho
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 4:54 PMNo kidding. Just saw a BBC (I think) special on one of the biggies from India. Chronic pedophile that likes the boys just a lot too much. -
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Re: Blue Morpho
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 6:15 PMLol, I don't know if that's exactly what I meant :) but yes, always leave your cultural preconceptions at the door when entering into someone else's sandbox..... -
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Re: Blue Morpho
Fri, October 24, 2008 - 5:47 PMChehalis acupuncturist sentenced to jail in improper touching case
Associated Press - August 7, 2008 9:25 PM ET
CHEHALIS, Wash. (AP) - A Chehalis acupuncturist has been sentenced to two months in jail and has to register as a sex offender as part of a plea agreement.
Russell Wahlund had been accused of improperly touching a female client.
The 61-year-old man was sentenced yesterday in Lewis County Superior Court.
Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
LOl ????? really? -
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Re: Blue Morpho
Fri, October 24, 2008 - 7:32 PMSorry, but this has to do with what? -
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Re: Blue Morpho
Fri, October 24, 2008 - 11:27 PMCG - if you really don't get why I put that lol there, which apparently offended you so, then I think you're being a little too mccarthyistic in searching for slip-ups. Clearly, I don't think pedophilia is funny. What I did think was kind of funny is that Richard gave an example which was pretty far from what I was thinking.
Seriously dude, who made you sherriff? -
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Re: Blue Morpho
Sat, October 25, 2008 - 6:59 AM"Stop judging, that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you. Why do you notice the splinter in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove that splinter from your eye,' while the wooden beam is in your eye? You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother's eye." -
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Re: Blue Morpho
Sat, October 25, 2008 - 9:51 AM
Code of Ethics and Professional Conduct
* Understand that any commitment other than service to the public undermines trust and credibility.
* Continuously seek the truth.
* Guard against extended coverage of events or individuals that fails to significantly advance a story, place the event in context, or add to the public knowledge.
* Treat all subjects of news coverage with respect and dignity, showing particular compassion to victims of crime or tragedy.
* Resist distortions that obscure the importance of events.
* Resist those who would seek to buy or politically influence news content or who would seek to intimidate those who gather and disseminate the news.
* Determine news content solely through editorial judgment and not as the result of outside influence.
* Present a diversity of expressions, opinions, and ideas in context.
* Professional electronic journalists should present the news with integrity and decency, avoiding real or perceived conflicts of interest, and respect the dignity and intelligence of the audience as well as the subjects of news.
* Clearly label opinion and commentary.
* Use technological tools with skill and thoughtfulness, avoiding techniques that skew facts, distort reality, or sensationalize events.
* Gather and report news without fear or favor, and vigorously resist undue influence from any outside forces, including advertisers, sources, story subjects, powerful individuals, and special interest groups.
* Resist any self-interest or peer pressure that might erode journalistic duty and service to the public.
PUBLIC TRUST:
TRUTH:
FAIRNESS:
INTEGRITY:
INDEPENDENCE:
ACCOUNTABILITY:
The above information is from a web page by The Association of Electronic Journalists.
Peace Jav.
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Re: Blue Morpho
Sat, October 25, 2008 - 9:53 AMPeace Jav,
I'm cool with someone looking to biblical references to help explain what they want to say, and I get that you think what I'm doing is passing judgement. Please understand though that that's what you see, and that's your stuff, what your working on, but it isn't mine.
My comment was no less ridiculous than Richard's guru comment, and about as relevant.
I have my stuff, the things I have to work on, and issues that need attention and healing. Your mistaken about what they are, but I definitely have my areas in need of help and I'm working to bring to light my less than lovely bits and deal with them.
I'm not the sheriff of anything, but I understand a little about why you might think that.
Most professions have an ethical and professional code of conduct. Lawyers, social workers, teachers, and even sheriff's. What bothers me most about Tribe has to do with the seeming lack of any ethical code of conduct in a semi-public, semi-private environment.
The rumors being spread in the culture of Amazonian Shamanism have been commented on here, and there's been a fair share of unfounded comments about this or that group or individuals working down there also. It often seems to me to have to do with the customer base perceived to be available through this Aya tribe, and securing their vote to use one of the preferred venues of those who post here regularly.
What bothers me, ( and this is some of my stuff ) and what I comment on in my own way, is what I see as unprofessional or unethical characterizations of those involved in the work with Aya by business owners in order to secure customers for their own business's. The general tribe guidelines are whatever they are, but here's something from a code that's applied to online Journalism. Conversation online isn't journalism, but it's close to that.
If those involved in on-line conversation adhered to a code of some sort, this would be a good example of how those who report stories about the world to the public try to do so. -
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Re: Blue Morpho
Sat, October 25, 2008 - 12:04 PM"I have my stuff, the things I have to work on, and issues that need attention and healing. Your mistaken about what they are"
You know, I don't remember ever saying anything about what your issues are CG. How am I mistaken about what they are, when I haven't ventured a guess?
"The rumors being spread in the culture of Amazonian Shamanism have been commented on here, and there's been a fair share of unfounded comments about this or that group or individuals working down there also"
I'm not gonna read through every post, but if I remember correctly, you asked whether what people were saying, or inquiring about, was based on rumor or first-hand conversations or what. Alan and Richard both posted about why they feel the way they do, and showed that their information was pretty good, and you didn't bother to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, they may know what they're talking about.
And yes, forgive me if I'm mistaken, but your posts on this tribe as of late seem rather judgemental to me. People are allowed to have open conversations here, and discuss their opinions. This is not a journalistic endeavour. We are not here to present cold hard facts, we are here to discuss things. Hence, the different ethical considerations. Having said that, I would like you to point out to me with quotes from my posts where exactly I have behaved in an unethical manner. In all the BM talk I have invited members from that "group" to come participate, share their thoughts with us, and have even made a good friend who is a BM regular thanks to my openness on the matter. I have consistenly defended the rights of people to drink medicina wherever they want to, and have consistenly stated that the spiritual insight or profoundity that can be gained from drinking at BM is as high or low as it is anywhere else. It's not only in the hands of the curandero, it's in the hands of the person drinking. Someone could drink with Percy Garcia and learn nothing or learn so much. Someone else may drink at BM, and learn nothing, or learn so much.
I can only speak for myself. But apart from a few exceptions most people on here have not made any flat out accusations or tried to defame or put down BM. There are questions that people have, and they have the right on an internet discussion board to seek answers to those questions.
I consider you a friend, and respect you greatly CG. I don't understand why we're always at an impasse with this topic. All your posts on here recently are to point out why other people are not behaving in line with what you consider to be the ethical or correct way to behave. Why not just lead by example, instead of trying to correct others?
Peace and love to you brother,
Jav -
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Re: Blue Morpho
Sat, October 25, 2008 - 1:52 PM
Jav,
I'm not pointing to you and saying you've been unethical. I thought I said pretty clearly that how things are discussed in online conversations, in my opinion, could benefit from some standards, possibly something similar to the code applied to journalism. The lack of adherence to some basic standards when delivering negative information about a subject or person, is again, just in my way of thinking, something I have a problem with. I, meaning me, get upset by it, not, I'm upset with you about it. It's an internal struggle with what I perceive as an unfair accusation that isn't helpful, and is influenced by the self interest of the one making it, for business or personal reasons, or just to point out the negative as a way of looking at things. I struggle with that and wonder why people do it.
In answer to your question about not responding to Richard or Alan's claims of first hand experience, I understand that they heard what they did, what I don't understand is their motivation is for saying it here. They don't owe me any explanation, and if they choose to offer one it's completely up to them. That I'm looking for an explanation for saying those things seems pretty clear to me, and just because I'm wondering about it or commenting on it doesn't compel anyone to take an interest or respond to it in any way.
It's the WHY of repeating unflattering or negative aspects of a situation that I don't really get. Why do it? Ayahuasca ceremonies aren't a day camp for children, but a venue for adults who's satisfaction is, or ought to be in my opinion, something they take responsibility for without blaming it on the venue. I also feel that those who run the venues benefit no one by talking up the negative aspects of another venue when there's so clearly a high level of self interest involved.
This is an open forum, and I understand that. Inside of that openness I choose to debate the relevance of keeping negative stories afloat.
No one is required in any way to change a thing they do. They have the freedom to do and say whatever they wish.
You wouldn't like it if I actually posted all the accusations that have been collecting here and in similar threads for months Jav. Neither would those who've made them, but it's a sizable collection, not a fiction on my part, and enough for me to try and talk about the motivation for continuing to do it. Flat out rumors, second and third hand information, or first hand experience, it still makes me want to understand why it continues. What's the perceived value in it? How is it helpful? Who does it benefit? I'm not asking for anyone to behave "in line" with how I think they should, but asking instead why behave the way they are? I can't answer the question for them, and I can't know the answer as they see it unless they explain. I have said, and it's an assumption on my part, that it smacks of business self interest. That's just an assumption, and if it's not that, I would like to know what it is, and no one owes me any explanation at all.
Also Jav, this issue isn't really personal and about a particular person here. It's part of my big internal struggle in life, and this is just someplace I talk about it. For me it's about healing, and understanding the need for people to aim or focus their attention on what's wrong with each other. It's not about avoiding the dirt or the muck and trying to rise above it to some shining moment where I'm free of all this earthly mess, it's about living in the thick of it, living with all the hurt and pain and the struggle and yet finding a perfect shining and liberating light inside of it right here. Something to balance the hurt, not to make it disappear, but to be able to live with it, and feel it deeply, and yet be okay with it because there's also this other piece present, this beauty and grace and solid goodness that I can join with and support and love.
I'm not just talking about it and wondering about it with a brother like you Jav, but bringing it into ceremony and looking for help with it there also. I intend to understand, and I count on the medicine to help me with that.
I'd rather shut my part in this conversation down than loose the quietly growing friendship we were establishing Jav.
So this is me signing off of the Ayahuasca Tribe. I have access to the medicine, which is what this tribe is really all about, and I'll continue trying to uncover what I need to about this in ceremony, letting those who frequent this tribe speak and do as they wish without commenting on it.
Forgive me if I caused anyone any upset or strife, and the best of luck to you all as you continue on your journey.
CG October 25th, 2008.. <(*^*)>
Peace...
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Tue, August 26, 2008 - 6:28 PMJav is perceptive. I assume that Blue M is a fine place. I have nothing against it other than a "feel" I got from talking with them a few years ago and then decided not to go there. Instead, I attended another equally "expensive" place and, yes, it was a wonderful and authentic experience - one I found to be worth the money - but you almost never hear anyone talk about that venue!
With BM, when any questioning or less than positive statement appears, folks just come out of the cracks as if they were a network of supporters on standby with an intense mission to put down any negative comments or questions anyone makes about the place and its leader. I've seen it happen at least three times on this Tribe in the last couple of years, and when it does, rightly or wrongly, it reinforces my first impressions of the place and the man every time.
It's not a problem if folks want to say their testimonials, but to those of us who are longer term members of this Tribe it does seem a little discomforting to see these "faceless / friendless" crowds appear to make their cookie-cutter endorsements and then disappear again.
I guess I'd defend the venue I went to, as well, should it be questioned, but then all you Tribers have seen me and my name around here for a couple of years or more, and I have some history here that can be referenced. And, interestingly, I've never encountered a complaint or questioning of that place. There have been quite a few about BM.
OK, prepare for the flood. . . . -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Tue, August 26, 2008 - 7:25 PM"With BM, when any questioning or less than positive statement appears, folks just come out of the cracks as if they were a network of supporters on standby with an intense mission to put down any negative comments or questions anyone makes about the place and its leader. I've seen it happen at least three times on this Tribe in the last couple of years, and when it does, rightly or wrongly, it reinforces my first impressions of the place and the man every time. "
Yeah Pluma, you hit the nail on the head....like I said before, I'm not knocking on BM or the work they do, it's just weird that everytime their name comes up all of a sudden this hoard of satisfied voyagers comes out of the woodworks, always with profiles they made purely to endorse the place.....strange.....
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Tue, August 26, 2008 - 7:43 PMI notice you made no recommendations.
I thought the thread was about recommendations. Not bitching about someplace you know nothing about.
"With BM, when any questioning or less than positive statement appears"...
Notice that there were no questions or less than positive statements made about BM.
On a thread about recommending where to go, one person from BM offered theirs.
"Intense mission"? That's supposed to be insulting right?
And were your impressions of BM based on any actual knowledge of the place? Ever been there?
Ever met the people who do ceremony there?
Long term members of this tribe?
Does this distinction bestow you with special privileges?
Should your voice hold more weight than others.
Is your opinion more valuable when discussing a place you've never been and have no knowledge of, as opposed to someone who's actually been there?
Prepare for the flood? Maybe, and maybe not. Here's a prediction for you though, I'm in a mood, so go ahead and bait me with unfounded mean spirited comments and see how well they hold up.... Or we can just get back to making recommendations. -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Tue, August 26, 2008 - 7:46 PMMy post was directed to Pluma Del Tigre...
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Tue, August 26, 2008 - 8:41 PMWell, CG,
maybe I wasn't talking to you, but responding to Jav and his comments. We were not directly making venue recommendations, true, but these threads often drift to ancilliary things. Recommending a venue for Ayahuasca should be more than just saying "I recommend this place." It can and should also contain honest discussions about critiques and possible drawbacks of one venue or another that some of us may have information about.
I never claimed to have been to B Morpho personally and stated so. I have said that I had correspondence with them and made some judgments based on that. To do less would be irresponsible before committing to attending a venue on a continent and culture I'd never been to, eh? My opinions may be different from yours or others who have been to BM, but so what?
You know, perhaps I'm just getting old and simple but it's amazing and saddening to me to see folks just waiting to pounce on someone's comments and criticize. What's your beef? Did I insult you? I wasn't talking to or about you. If you want to testify to B. Morpho, please do.
OK, Points: Long term member = no, no special privileges. That was not the point, rather that those who have been here a while are aware of each other through long exposure to various posts. Jav's (and others who have noted this) point was that whenever BM is mentioned negatively, lots of folks show up here who are NOT members of the Tribe. Nothing wrong with it - no one said so! It is simply an observation and we made some of our feelings known about what we intuit from this. It looks and sounds like an organized campaign. It looks and sounds like it's a bit frantic. It looks and feels like it is a purposed "intense mission," Funny how you jumped to the conclusion that this is an insult.
It's just an observation. What's the matter? You seem to have your heart on your sleeve about it, just like so many of the faceless/friendless who respond to these things.
Also, I have made my venue recommendations on several other threads. When folks come to this Tribe and ask this question, it is obvious that they have not taken the time or the courtesy to research old threads where their question may have been asked. That is one of the frustrating things for "long term" members who, still, patiently re-state many of the things over and over for those new people. In this instance, my purpose was to respond to Jav's comments and not to re-state my recommendations.
I'm glad if you have had a great experience with Hamilton and BM, CG, but frankly, I don't care whether you are in a mood about what we have posted here. I do observe that you've displayed it for everyone when we were otherwise discussing things in a straightforward manner.
Blessings to you. -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Tue, August 26, 2008 - 9:56 PM
"honest discussions about critiques and possible drawbacks of one venue or another that some of us may have information about."
Honest discussion about a place you've never been? May have information about?
Your talking about it yes, but not from any actual experience.
What do you call it when someone reaches conclusions and shares them with others about something they don't actually know about?
Is that speculation? Is it guesswork, or a hunch? Is it assumptions, inference, or suspicion? Is it just what you imagine?
It would seem to me that honest discussion begins with a qualification of what you have to say that's accurate.
I'm only guessing, but.......
I'm suspicious and have no evidence to back it up, but.....
I have a hunch that's just based on my feelings and that I can't confirm, but......
because in all fairness you haven't got a clue.... That's sort of honest right?
What makes you think I was, "waiting to pounce on someone's comments and criticize."
Isn't this more of the same? In point of fact you have no idea why your post got me interested in responding. None at all. Zero.
You have an idea about it though, ............a good guess as to why..............., a hunch....
but honestly you haven't got a clue. You talk like you do though, right, as if your hunches are facts.
That's not exactly discussion, "in a straightforward manner."
Then theres this gem.
"Also, I have made my venue recommendations on several other threads. When folks come to this Tribe and ask this question, it is obvious that they have not taken the time or the courtesy to research old threads where their question may have been asked."
Wow. A little pompous maybe? Maybe they have no interest in you personally. Maybe it wasn't your specific recommendations they were looking for, but a general group of recommendations across a broad spectrum of views.
If your highness is tired of this question by the annoying newcomers, why hasn't anyone here bothered to gather a list of possibilities for new people to look over and simply direct them to it, or post a link to it. It could have reviews from people who have actually been to the various places and so have an honest assessment, or at the very least, one from a first hand perspective which can be shared with the one who's interested.
You could start another list of places old timers on the aya tribe have never been to and know nothing about, but like to pass judgment on based on a hunch, or a feeling of suspicion, as if it were relevant to anyone but themselves.
Guess again.
conjecture, contemplation, gamble, guesswork, hunch, hypothesis, meditation, reasoning, review, risk, surmise, theory
"My opinions may be different from yours or others who have been to BM, but so what? "
If BM participants opinions are different than yours, so what? If it's no big deal, then why make a fuss about their opinions. -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Wed, August 27, 2008 - 6:15 AMWow CG, what's with you acting like the Aya-tribe sherriff these days? This is the second time I see you pounce, yes pounce, on people for making observations that to you seemed mean-spirited. I didn't perceive Pluma's remarks as mean spirited. Yours on the other hand..... -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Wed, August 27, 2008 - 6:50 AMJav-
I agree brother.
CG, do you have an interest in BM? You seem to defend them vigorously, and your usual peaceful tone seems to shift to something harsh, unkind and unusually invested in arguing.
This is a discussion board. People discuss and share. You're welcome to share whatever you'd like, but please consider extending the same courtesy to others.
Veg
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Wed, August 27, 2008 - 7:14 AMMaking observations?
It was only a few days ago that the same group was getting harassed with the same accusations.
As I see it, that's not being a sheriff, that's just me speaking up about something that bothers me that's ongoing here.
If the people being harassed didn't feel that way about what was being said about them, then it would just be a feeling I was having, and unrelated to the way others see it. Then it would just be an opinion unsupported by any sense of being shared. A personal opinion.
I tried to make the point that theres a difference between unfounded speculation and first hand experience. You're certainly free to theorize and speculate about other people, and I think a possible problem with that is that people begin to believe their own story.
It's just a story he's telling about them. It's not from experience, but he presents it like it's possibly the truth about them. A shareable truth.
If you can't see how that could begin to be a problem then look more carefully please. Look at the stories that are told to marginalize certain groups. Don't if it doesn't interest you.
If the "truth" of a person or situation is going to be whatever story is told about it, without any actual experience or relationship by the story teller to the person in question I think it's a problem.
To be fair, in my relationships I try to form my ideas about the other person from experience. When it's just pure speculation, I'm aware of how far from any description of reality I am.
You have a right to share that kind of speculation on an open forum, just as it's within my rights to speak about it.
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Wed, August 27, 2008 - 7:29 AMYeah, but this isn't based on speculation. Facts are as follows: everytime Blue Morpho comes up faces pop up who, by their own admission, have signed up only for the purpose of saying how good BM is, or how great their experiences there are. Which is fine, but how do these people even find out about these threads in the first place? Are they just hanging out waiting for the opportunity, and when the moment is right they sign up, make an account, and defend BM? Or is someone writing them and asking them to defend or promote BM? Or are they just faces made up by BM investors to defend their place? Wouldn't be that strange would it?
And no, having friends and interactions on here doesn't give you priority or seniority over anyone, it just gives you verifiability. As in, if you've communicated with others on here before, they know a little bit about you, a little bit about your background, and a little bit about where you're coming from. These "faceless, friendless" members are not a part of the community, and have made no effort to be. So how do I know who they are? How do I know where they are coming from? How do I know what their motives are? And given that the ONLY times they post it's usually in a defensive manner, or trying to promote BM, it raises a couple hairs on my back and makes me wonder.....Is intuition really something that's so unusual or outside of your realm of understanding CG? Sure, there's a fine line between speculation and intuition, but really, we're talking about a situation that keeps repeating itself over and over and over....I would say that takes it beyond speculation..... -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Wed, August 27, 2008 - 7:35 AM"your usual peaceful tone seems to shift to something harsh, unkind and unusually invested in arguing. "
This is the weirdest part about it.....normally CG your posts are beautiful, compassionate and gentle. BM comes up and man does that change.....odd..... -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Wed, August 27, 2008 - 7:06 PMIt's not about BM Jav.
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Wed, August 27, 2008 - 7:38 AMCG-
Do you have a direct relationship to BM or anyone involved? Have you been there before?
As for "stories" and "experiences", you seem to be sharing a lot of "stories" yourself, none of which seem related to experiences.
You also seem to have a need to defend people who, by all accounts, seem perfectly able to defend themselves, should they feel the need to do so.
Veg -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Wed, August 27, 2008 - 6:58 PM
Why do you ask Veg?
I've never been to BM, and other than PM's with BM participants when the group is getting grilled here on tribe, have never met anyone associated with them.
What specific stories do you mean Veg, and how are those stories not related to my experience?
I'm not actually defending them Veg.
If your wondering what my motivation for responding is, then post it as a question. -
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Unsu...
Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Thu, August 28, 2008 - 11:13 AMHermanos de la luz,
(CG, Veg, and Jav)
?
you guys are all right... and the more you talk at each other the more right you will become.
butterflies like flowers, and condors like carcasses
but we need butterflies and condors! ...
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 9:23 PMSort of jumping in to fan the flames, but only because what CG is doing isn't fulfilling a "need to defend people", but rather pointing out something which should be obvious on the face of it: when you speak things that aren't truth as truth, some people wll accept it as truth. Granted the bulk of what Jav and Pluma del Tigre (hello fellow Austinite) put forth as truth was in the subtext, but it ends up the same. And that's not honest.
CG was, in my estimation (and I could be wrong :) calling for a recognition of our own underlying motivations and intentions, especially when sharing information. The subtext that BM is doing something underhanded was put forth, and reinforced, by both PdT and Jav. That's not defending BM, it's pointing out when someone else who is supposed to be living up to higher ideals...isn't.
You know how I found out about this thread? By reading the current posting on Tribe. Other two times I've posted on the subject of BM, definitely friends have emailed me and said "take a look, they are slamming BM again." Because you ARE slamming them. Again.
My path really doesn't involve posting on here all the time, because I have lots of work to do on myself and very few of the topics that come up feel relevant. Here's where CG steps in and says, "then post something relevant".
If someone is trying to help you become a better person - could be ayahuasca working directly or indirectly, or a just someone with a general sense of compassion - it's probably worthwhile to listen, especially when listening with an open heart is difficult.
peace and love,
Mike -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 11:20 PMMy goodness. What a super sensitivity we have here. I had determined not to re-stir this pot.
I've said what I've said about this issue several times and I'm not inclined to open this can of pique and judgementalism again, but yes, fans do get flamed when I'm accused of dishonesty.
Those of us who have recently expressed some observations and even doubts about BM have NOT "slammed them again". That is a slam itself - against me and my statements! (I'll not speak for JAV or others who have commented).
When assessing such a venue from FAR afar, it is certainly reasonable and important to ask questions. It is also appropriate and wise to express any concerns one may have or have heard of from others. This forum is one place to work out those questions and concerns. You or someone else may have information I don't, and vice versa. Your information may deflate one of my concerns.
Taking one's self to South America and putting yourself into such an energetic and emotionally vulnerable situation is not to be taken lightly or without questioning just about everything concerning wherever you think you might want to go or who you might want to work with.
I have always stated that I think BM may well be a great place. Others have said so, and that's fine - I take their endorsements at their word - but that doesn't mean I take their opinion as true without further assessment and corroboration, especially in the face of some of the phenomena that I and others have observed. Some of us who still have our questions can and should be able to express them. We should be able to do so in an environment of mutual interest and tolerance, not in one where we are jumped on or accused of underhandedly torpedoeing someone or some venue. . . or one where we are accused of not being honest.
I did not put forth some subtext "as truth." I asked questions and with others, made some simple observations and mentioned my own personal interactions with BM that also fed my own opinions about them. These observations. opinions. and questions are honest ones, but they are observations and opinions and questions. If anyone takes these as "truth", then they have a lot to worry about besides my musings or lack thereof.
I've also said it before: if you want to testify to BM, do so. However, don't call me or others dishonest when we are asking questions and making our own observations. Some of you seem to think that my "underlying motivations" are, well . . underlying what I said - some hidden agenda to destroy. No. I said everything I meant to upfront, but questions are not answers. This forum is not a place restricted to qualified and notarized facts and research. It IS a place where we often discuss nuance, impressions, subtleties, suppositions, feelings, and - especially - ask lots of questions.
Questions are questions. Feelings are feelings. Facts are facts, but one person's assertion is the equivalent of any other person's assertion in the absence of proofs.
Now, I'll be very happy to listen to a good voice, trying to help.
MINE is a good voice trying to help. If my opinions or observations should point out an actual problem or bring to light some caution to be aware of, then that is an important role for all of us to play in talking about various venues. I would appreciate that from any of you.
"If someone is trying to help you become a better person . . . - it's probably worthwhile to listen. . ."
Yes, It is worthwhile - always - if a person is trying to help and is not on an agenda of their own. But yes, it is hard to respond with an open heart to those who insist on characterizing my words as dishonest and my intentions as underhanded, and who have pounced upon a simple and well-meaning discussion.
So, why don't we all just drop the analysis of each other and quit being so chip on the shoulder, super-sensitive and quick to accuse folks of dishonesty and subtexts? You have a right to your opinions, too? You bet. but when it's a stated opinion that says I'm being dishonest or underhanded, then I have the right and obligation to defend myself.
Blessings and Light, my friends.
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Wed, August 27, 2008 - 7:56 AMcg, i'm a bit surprised about your responses here. it reads out of character for you in that the tone is a departure from your usual responses and posts. if you are in a "mood" as you said above, you might consider posting after it has passed so that it does not interfere with a clear, less emotionally charged comment? an idea.
all the best -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Wed, August 27, 2008 - 10:42 PMIf your wondering what my motivation for responding is, then post it as a question."
though this is very clear and straight forward
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Wed, August 27, 2008 - 6:31 AMMolly for your reference here is the web site for Blue Morpho www.bluemorphotours.com/ . Where ever you decide to go I would like to hear how it goes for you. Good Journeys, Victoria -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Wed, August 27, 2008 - 7:05 AMWthout doubt, Percy Garcia is the way to go. Prices are right, you don't get starved and he doesn't continually tell you that his is the only place he can guarantee you won't get "attacked" by brujos. Humble, doesn't refer to himself as a shaman, transparent, doesn't overcharge, completely screened in, ceremonial maloca built on stilts over a small river, private cabins, deep jungle, diets as you wish and most of all... he's a beautiful human being. -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Wed, August 27, 2008 - 8:03 AMmariela, does percy speak english?
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Wed, August 27, 2008 - 7:31 AMHey Victoria, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, when you went down to BM, what it was like? How about a picture? It's not illegal to drink in Peru, so that's not an issue. I'm not being mean spirited, but seriously, how about you introduce yourself to the tribe, since you have already chosen to participate in it....
Most people on here already know at least a few things about me, and I know a few things about most of the posters on here....so welcome to the fire....who are you?
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Re: Please recommend...Who are you?
Wed, August 27, 2008 - 11:13 AMThank you for asking Jav. I would have responded sooner but my internet access has been down most of the morning. I am sorry about no picture but I am not computer savvy and I have no idea about how to get a picture on the site. Plus I do not have a digital camera so oh well. I live in a small city in the mountains of Arizona. I work in the metro area as an urban planner and project manager. I have my masters degree from UCLA.
I have participated in 30 Ayahuasca ceremonies and have done 6 Dietas. I have been fortunate to have Don Alberto and Hamilton Souther as my guides. The direct one-on-one experience with Spirit that I have with "la Medicina" is my Medicine Path. I love the Ayahuasca, the Medicine and the Dietas so very much. It is all so very beautiful. Peace and Light to you all, Victoria
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Wed, August 27, 2008 - 8:02 AMfidel andy -- www.fidelandy.com
i experienced profound healing from his treatments. and my 75 year old mother recently went down for diabetes treament and has come back measuring normal blood sugar levels since (so far, fingers crossed).
don lucho -- www.myspace.com/kapitari
my husband and i would recommend luchos place for dieta, meditation, and reflection. it is very beautiful and peaceful (it is also near enou to iquitos that you could meet people and hear others experience with the local shaman). my husband was treated by lucho for heart palpitations and asthma and has not been bothered by symptoms of either one since (and the heart palpitations were a problem for a while before.
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Wed, August 27, 2008 - 8:08 AMand by the way, fidel and lucho do not speak english. i highly recommend anyone even remotely considering a trip to the amazon, even if you have no idea how or when, start learning spanish! there are lessons you can buy used through amazon for example that are adequate to great.
as for going prior to fluency to see a spanish speaking shaman, i have done it several times. don't let it stop you. and you might very well plan your trip when there is someone already there who does speak english and spanish. (babblefish is an online translator if you want to correspond or make arrangements with these guys online.
many blessings for our healing and awakening! -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Wed, August 27, 2008 - 8:48 AMPercy has an apprentice from Mexico with him now and so he's fluent in English/Spanish... Percy is learning English as well via a CD program purchased in the States.
But, language aside, la Madre Aya always finds a way to communicate, doesn't she... -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Wed, August 27, 2008 - 11:26 AMBut, language aside, la Madre Aya always finds a way to communicate, doesn't she..."
indeed!
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Thu, August 28, 2008 - 12:01 AMWow.
Yes, I haven't spent much time on tribe until recently as it is time consuming. Being new to this, I again, so appreciate all of your advice. Actually I did check out Blue Morpho before I inquired with my post. It seems like a lovely place, with good people. That said, it does seem like they are catering to westerners and their money. No judgement there, just not what I am connecting to. Since I first posted I have indeed spent a lot more time exploring older threads that have given me greater insight. Both Percy Garcia and Javier Arevalo speak to me. And thank you Embrace for your recommendations.
For now, I am just setting intention as I have some manifesting to do to be able to go. I am sure Spirit will guide me, along with my friends. Peace, Love, Light and LAUGHTER to you all! ; ) -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Thu, August 28, 2008 - 12:09 AMI don't think you can go wrong with either one. Both are excellent, though quite different.
You'll know, and you'll have an amazing time.
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Tue, November 25, 2008 - 12:28 AMmy brother had sessions w/ fidel andy. he had a great experience. It's not expensive and supposed to be beautiful around his place, set on a little island. Its a little outside of Tena. Go for it, the area surrounding Tena is beautiful. I had the most incredible time in Tena. Our first session we couldn't get in touch with Fidel in time, so our rafting guide, Pablo from Rios Ecuador, came with us to his friends father's place who was a shaman, and we did a session with him. It was incredible. The shaman was in his own world, and didn't quite communicate with us... really at all. Other than asking us how we felt and what we saw. our friends fell asleep, but we found that we didn't need them anyways. My brother went back to Tena later while I went to Quito and did two sessions with Fidel. He would highly recommend it. Fidel doesn't speak English, so it made quite an interesting time for my brother. But overall he came back a better person. Personally I don't know why anyone would pay thousands of dollars for an experience when its possible to do it for much less.
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Re: Please recommend ...Who are you?
Wed, August 27, 2008 - 11:14 AMnew post
Re: Please recommend...Who are you?Today, 11:13 AM
Thank you for asking Jav. I would have responded sooner but my internet access has been down most of the morning. I am sorry about no picture but I am not computer savvy and I have no idea about how to get a picture on the site. Plus I do not have a digital camera so oh well. I live in a small city in the mountains of Arizona. I work in the metro area as an urban planner and project manager. I have my masters degree from UCLA.
I have participated in 30 Ayahuasca ceremonies and have done 6 Dietas. I have been fortunate to have Don Alberto and Hamilton Souther as my guides. The direct one-on-one experience with Spirit that I have with "la Medicina" is my Medicine Path. I love the Ayahuasca, the Medicine and the Dietas so very much. It is all so very beautiful. Peace and Light to you all, Victoria -
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Re: Please recommend ...Who are you?
Wed, August 27, 2008 - 11:27 AMThank you kindly for responding Victoria, and for taking my post in the spirit it was intended. Me, I live in Santiago, Chile and drink fairly regularly with a curandero here, and have done one dieta. I work teaching english and doing translations and am taking a permaculture course currently, and hope to move my life in that direction more and more over the next few months.
Stick around eh? It would be nice to have an insiders voice when the whole Blue Morpho topic comes up (which it seem to do regularly).
Thanks again, and I hope you and yours are all doing well!
Jav -
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Re: Please recommend ...Who are you?
Wed, August 27, 2008 - 12:17 PMI am doing fine thanks. I will be around, if not in the USA then down in the Peruvian Amazon partaking of the Medicine.
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Re: Please recommend ...Who are you?
Wed, August 27, 2008 - 11:33 AMvictoria, you do not have to use your own face as you might notice by all the avatars here. but if you have any photos on your computer or you search for one at google images you like you can use that.
i would be happy to send you step by step instructions. it is actually quite easy. let me know ... -
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Re: Please recommend ...Who are you?
Wed, August 27, 2008 - 12:15 PMPlease do send instructions. I found one image on Google I wanted to use and tried a right click, copy, paste and then well gave up. Your help would be greatly appreciated! -
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Re: Please recommend ...Who are you?
Wed, August 27, 2008 - 4:39 PMLooks like it worked out ok! Thanks for being willing to open up and share with us. Truth is there's nothing more prone to speculation than the unknown, so it's nice to have someone who is willing to be a part of this community, and who has been to Blue Morpho. Thanks again Victoria, and welcome!
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Re: Please recommend ...Who are you?
Wed, August 27, 2008 - 10:37 PMglad it worked out. lovely image -
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Unsu...
Re: Please recommend ...Who are you?
Thu, August 28, 2008 - 8:20 PMi just wanted to comment on how many amazing souls i have seen participate in this thread.
thanks to you all for speaking.
i would like to encourage CG to continue opening his heart in this issue. (are you there?)
much love. -
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Re: Please recommend ...Who are you?
Thu, August 28, 2008 - 8:33 PM"i would like to encourage CG to continue opening his heart in this issue. (are you there?) "
i second that though it might appear otherwise! lol -
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Re: Please recommend ...Who are you?
Wed, September 3, 2008 - 11:14 PM
My heart is open.
I looked back at the discussion and saw in some folks responses to what I was saying that I was being understood, and in others that I was being misunderstood. No worries, life is often like that for me, being understood sometimes, misunderstood at others.
I've found my own way and path through the years. I've become adept at following my own hearts call and tracking the spirits. I've placed myself in their path and built my own relationships with them.
I trust the medicines. I'm not worried about anyone getting harmed by them. I trust my sense of discernment, and recognize in others when their someone I'd go to the edge and over with. When I meet them I just know it, and if I'm wrong the lesson will include something about that. I don't mind what color their hair is, or how they dress or sing or dance. I don't mind if they come from another culture or from my own.
I don't mind if their Hindu or Sufi or Jewish or come from any religious denomination that's out there. I don't care what they do for a living or what type of food they prefer. I don't place much importance on being in with the right group or thinking in the right way. I don't mind if they have a degree or don't. Every distinction you can name for someone that is about their body or culture or religious or philosophical stance makes no impression on me because it's all fine with me. I have no argument with it.
What I care about is a persons character, and who they've chosen to be despite all the colorful cultural and physical trappings of their history. Marginalizing a group or person because of guesswork or speculation before exploring their character through dialogue or in person is, in my way of thinking, a mistake. For me it took just a few messages with Mike to recognize an honest and self aware brother, and so his first hand recommendations will carry weight with me if I'm looking for some. Nobody is without some problems, and all my friends and me have them. Having a problem is acceptable for me. Defending a problem in one's own character, or defending a way of thinking and expressing that disparages someone else's character without any real first hand experience of them isn't. It's not meant to be a rule of thumb for any one else, it's just how I am, and so if I see it going on I'll say something. Calling it observations and opinions doesn't change for me what I see as unsupported speculation about the character of someone.
This started as a thread about recommendations, and how we make them has been what I've been discussing here. -
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Unsu...
Re: Percy garcia
Tue, September 9, 2008 - 5:15 PM"Wthout doubt, Percy Garcia is the way to go. Prices are right, you don't get starved and he doesn't continually tell you that his is the only place he can guarantee you won't get "attacked" by brujos. Humble, doesn't refer to himself as a shaman, transparent, doesn't overcharge, completely screened in, ceremonial maloca built on stilts over a small river, private cabins, deep jungle, diets as you wish and most of all... he's a beautiful human being."
that sounds wonderful. I am wondering what his conduct is with female students, particularly ones that he is attracted to. what is is level of respect for women?
also, are there any negative qualities (cons) about percy and his practice that might help us make decisions about working with him?
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Re: Percy garcia
Tue, September 9, 2008 - 5:43 PMPercy is a family man, married with children. I've known him for 4 years now and I have never heard a complaint that he has been involved with any of his clients, nor would he. He understands that if he did that, he'd lose his reputation and his power as well as his future passengers. He's honest, straightforward with information about the plants and healing, transparent and has a huge heart. You'll love his work. His maloca is built over a small river completely screened in, private cabins, botanical garden, flower baths, etc. etc. etc. and he does not charge you 2000 dollars for 10 or 8 days... -
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Re: Percy garcia
Fri, October 24, 2008 - 12:12 AMHas Percy healed you? Does the aya really work for someone seeking genuine healing? Is there a website for him? Thanks for any help.
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Re: Percy garcia
Wed, September 10, 2008 - 11:58 PMPercy has a very beautiful place. I also felt very comfortable
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Wed, September 10, 2008 - 9:12 AMHola Molly,
I recommend going to Iquitos, where there are more and more powerful healers emerging from their jungle communities to assist foreigners like yourself. I recently started the Ayahuasca Foundation in Iquitos, which will soon be a service to seekers, providing accurate and insightful information on as many curanderos and curanderas as possible. There are many programs, and each has its own style of doing things. If you are serious about healing, then I recommend following through treatment with one curandero. The more ideas you hear the more confused you might become.
However, choosing the curandero to work with can be tricky. I have found that women often enjoy being with female curanderas more than male, although not always. I know of two very good curanderas, as well as a host of powerful curanderos. Check out curanderoseminar.com to see a few of the available programs. I currently study with dona Othelia, and I think she is amazing. She was documented recently by an Australian film crew healing a late stage breast cancer patient. I was there for most of that process, and witnessed her heal herpes in one week and many more afflictions using the pharmacy of medicinal plants found in the Amazon Rainforest.
feel free to contact me for more information on how to contact the curanderos, or with questions.
in the end, it is your instincts that must guide you, and your willingness to surrender to the flow of spiritual movement in your life.
good luck!
-carlos
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Sat, September 13, 2008 - 4:27 AMMy experiences so far has told me to stay away from where everyone else is going - stay clear of superstars and the path often travelled.
Find your own way, find your own families and places - make the ayahuasca culture a diverse playing field by gathering your own intelligence and spread your intentions and funds as wide as possible - if everyone keeps going to the same handful of healers in Iquitos, then the culture of ayahuasca is doomed - they will be the only ones in the end, like Coca Cola and Pepsi isn't much a choice, even if they taste good to some.
Everyone is different, each brew is different - spread your wings of desire to embrace the entire forest, not just the usual suspects.
Talk to people on the road - the really good information shouldn't even feature in public forums like this, but should circulate in a web of trust on a face to face basis.
Finally, there is always psychic warfare in the Amazon - between shamans and foreigners are all to keen to join this, often unwittingly - so it is a good thing to never take sides, never stick to one and same shaman - as foreign intruders in an increasingly vulnerable culture we have a responsibility to bring people together in strength, not divide them into weakness (by giving monetary shape to superstars, for instance).
See also:
colonos.wordpress.com/2008/09...italism/ -
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Unsu...
Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Sat, September 13, 2008 - 12:20 PM"Talk to people on the road - the really good information shouldn't even feature in public forums like this, but should circulate in a web of trust on a face to face basis."
good point. i'd like to emphasise the importance if doing this with caution and without simply sitting down with the first random"shaman" you run into. or sitting down with the first shaman that a friend recommends. building a trusting relationship with ANYONE BEFORE partaking in such a super-intimate setting is a good idea in general. i think that forums like these are often used as a foundation for beginning to spin the web getting reccommendaitons from eachother as to who we feel comfortble with.
i personally trust some of the people on this forum quite alot, because we have been posting and discussing things for a good period of time now, and i would feel quite safe travelling to the Amazon with some of these suggestions in mind. infact, i think i will.
But the rest is up to us. Let's always take everyone's suggestions with a grain of salt, and trust out INNER voice more than anything.
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Sat, October 18, 2008 - 9:43 AMif you are looking for a large group experience in the jungle I would suggest blue morpho tours. If you are looking for a medium size group experience I would recommend www.ayahuasca-wasi.com/. if you are looking for a more one-on-one personal experience with ayahuasca I would highly recommend ayahuascacircle.com/. Antonio has a beautiful center near puerto maldonado, it is newly finished so he has small groups. but he has over 9 years practice as a shaman, and I have to say, have had some of my most powerful, insightful journeys with him. He has a huge heart and sings beautiful icaros. He is also an active environmental conservationist and all his monies go into protecting the rainforest. His workshops are also not very expensive compared to others. Email him if you have any questions and you'll get a detailed reply. He is a peruvian from lima, so a good bridge between the worlds of indigenous shaman and western seeker. -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Tue, October 21, 2008 - 10:40 AMWhy is it that BM constantly tells their clients that all the other shaman/curanderos are brujos?
Why is it that, if you are a BM client, and you go off for a few days and drink with another curandero that you are then thrown out of BM? -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Tue, October 21, 2008 - 11:45 AMGood question. They do seem to foster a great fear of the other there. I've overheard a number of conversations between BM regulars and newbies at the Yellow Rose (I"m not nosy, but it's pretty hard not to overhear conversations happening right next to you) and the common theme seems to be fear and brujos and danger and "we're the only safe place in Peru". Major turn-off for me.
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Tue, October 21, 2008 - 7:16 PM
Is this something you heard in person, and heard so often in person that you feel comfortable calling it constant, or is this second hand or third hand information and you haven't actually ever heard a Maestro from BM say it?
If you heard it in person, who said it, or says it constantly? -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Tue, October 21, 2008 - 8:01 PMHere's another approach to this Mari.
If your concerned about someones behavior, you can just ask them what the source of it is. That way you can discover how it is they came to be behaving that way. You could ask the Maestro's who work there about it to see if they know about it, and if not or if so, you can ask how they feel about it.
Instead you choose to make the accusations you did above without any qualifications as to weather you personally heard the things you claim are being said.
Why not start a Aya tribe where people in the business openly state what it is they do and how much of their livelihood is made from it, and then tell all the rumors you want about each other there, while leaving this Aya site to those who participate with the medicine, occasionally or regularly, and want to talk about their experiences without being pushed or pulled by the bickering and rumor mongering of business owners.
Or, just make all the unfounded remarks you want and don't listen to mine at all. :) -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 3:09 AMGeez CG, you've really got an axe to grind with this topic. Mariella and Alan live in Iquitos, organize the conference there every year, I would imagine if anyone knows what the deal is with what's going on there it's them. And Richard practically lives in Iquitos too, he's there every year for months. They're concerned with a behavior they've noticed and they ARE asking about it. Hamilton can choose to answer or not (I'm guessing not).
Seriously CG, why do you so drastically question everyone when BM comes up? Why do you assume that their intentions are bad and ill-founded and that you know better than them how to handle these things? These people have been drinking the medicine consistently for a long time, how about the benefit of the doubt, or are you so blinded by your crusade to defend BM? weird.....
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 4:25 AMI am not sure that the behavior described by Richard and Mariella is limited to Blue Morpho people.
In my experience -- for whatever it's worth -- *everyone* in Iquitos is constantly discussing which curandero is really a brujo, who has harmed whom under the guise of healing, who has put a pusanga on whose spouse, whose bad luck or business troubles are due to brujeria, and who purchased the services of a brujo to seduce or corrupt or destroy someone else. Under the surface politeness, beneath people calling each other hermano and hermanita, there is a huge gossip mill in Iquitos -- all about sorcery.
And this is simply a reflection, I believe, of a preoccupation that exists throughout the Upper Amazon.
We talk about celebrity sex and celebrity drug addictions. Loretanos talk about sorcery.
For whatever that's worth.
-- Steve
singingtotheplants.blogspot.com/ -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 7:41 AM
"Seriously CG, why do you so drastically question everyone when BM comes up?"
It's not about BM Jav. I've said that before, and lots of experience, to answer your question about , "benefit of the doubt," isn't necessarily an indication of levels of enlightenment or growth. Please don't take that personally, or imagine I'm saying that to someone in particular, but imagine instead where we are in the world today after a few thousand years of human culture. History, or age, or experience by themselves, aren't why I give someone the "benefit of the doubt."
Here's the benefit of the doubt that I believe in giving Jav. I believe that we, all of us, are the creations of the Creator of all life. You can put whatever name to that Creator that you wish, whatever tag brings to mind the Source of all creation. Or if it's a better fit for you, that we're the creations of Gaia. In the midst of all the ways you can choose to view creation, and there are possibly as many as there are minded beings, I choose to see and focus on holiness and health and well being. I believe people are essentially good, although they may behave badly at times, and even more than that are Holy, in that place of unity and connection to the web of all life leading to the Source.
I'm not afraid of witches and goblins or demons and devils, and I don't tell stories about others involvement with them. I stay focused on the divinity of beings and join the occasional argument about what's worth focusing on in people. This is one of those. We're talking about weather people are good or bad, weather they have good or bad intentions.
"Why do you assume that their intentions are bad and ill-founded and that you know better than them how to handle these things?"
The answer to that question Jav, is that I'm not assuming that their intentions are bad or ill-founded. I'm assuming that the players at BM, along with Mari and Richard and everyone else, are the beautiful shinning light of creation at play in the world. The play gets a little off point and mean to be certain, but sharing or extending a negative rumor or negative picture of others deserves, in my opinion, to be redirected toward a vision of unity and Holiness. Celebrity foibles, sexcapades, and brujeria, or the preoccupation with them, isn't the best we can offer each other, and I believe you deserve nothing less than the best.
Here's a toast to your beauty, your health and your comfort. Cheers...
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 8:40 AMTrue that. Rumors fly in Iquitos like mosquitoes in the summer.
That said, in all the time I have been in Iquitos, I have never heard the subject of brujeria talked about with such vehemence and intention to cause fear as I have heard in the conversation I addressed above. For clarification, the conversation was between a BM apprentice and a person new to Iquitos and la medicina. It went on for at least a half hour, and nothing other than the dangers of brujeria and how BM was the only place in Iquitos where she would be safe from it were discussed.
It actually was quite disturbing to me. -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 9:48 AMthis is Alan posting, not Mariella. I have personally heard these conversations where passengers of BM speak of all other curanderos probably being brujos. And I have been in personal conversations with BM passengers as well. Like Richard, it is disturbing to me as well and I do not approve of this as a righteous method to keep your passengers coming back to you. Just the opposite, I think once you have been with a healer that you owe it to yourself to move one and get other perspectives. And frankly, there are many excellent healers here and not one brujo that can stand up to a pinch of salt thrown over my shoulder. -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 5:59 AMThere isn't situation that exists in which I couldn't find something negative to say about it if I wanted to. Not one. I can always find something to complain about if I want to. It's my choice, if I want to report on the negative and complain about it, but I'm not compelled to do so.
I could stand on the corner all day long warning others about the danger of crossing the road and offer to help them across. Statistics would back me up. More people get hit in the road than on the sidewalk.
Maybe I'd be doing it out of concern for public safety, in which case it's kind of cool thing to do at the school where the little kids go and I can be a volunteer crossing guard.
If my only motive was public safety it would be a little weird to be doing it however at an intersection frequented by adults.
If my motive when complaining or commenting on the negative or dangerous aspects of a situation is for business reasons, to steer people away from the so called unscrupulous or dangerous business practices of my competitor's, or to purposely steer people toward the business of a friend, well, that's not the same thing as volunteering as a crossing guard for children.
Iquitos may be different in some cultural aspects, but some behavior is just human and goes on everywhere.
Adults, in my opinion, learn valuable lessons by taking responsibility for the outcome of their own choices and don't blame their experience on the behavior of others, although some choose to continue to look for the crossing guard long after one is really necessary, and even blame their experience and accidents on the lack of one being present to give advice and hold their hand during life's "dangerous" intersections.
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 6:38 PMAwhile ago three friends and I descended on Pablo Amaringo's school of Amazonian painting, Usko Ayar, and were guided to three marvelous curanderos for as many evenings of group aya work which set us up for further experiences....
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 11:08 AMYou're one of those guys who says a lot of things without saying anything. The topic is: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing. The topic is not: Let me be the parent and scold these kids for not being positive all the time. Stay on topic homes. People can give opinions that are not positive. This is not bizarro world. Do you have a recommendation or not?
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Blue Morpho
Tue, October 28, 2008 - 4:50 PMI am Hamilton Souther, owner of Blue Morpho.
Witchcraft has been a part of traditional Amazonian belief systems for thousands of years. There is the belief in spirits that can be either used to help or harm. These practices and beliefs are not only traditional to the Amazon but many other areas of the world. If we read anthropological texts about traditional shamanic practices around the world, there is consistent mention of witchcraft and its uses. To debate the existence of witchcraft is to deny the truthful life experiences that peoples have had generation after generation. The local populations of the Amazon believe in the practice of witchcraft and consider it something that is very real and impacting to their everyday lives.
The themes of this thread have moved on to the topic of witchcraft and have begun to discuss how Blue Morpho and I have presented information about it. For the first years while I was in the Amazon I did not openly discuss witchcraft or its uses. I thought that if I talked about it then people would make the very accusations they are now through this forum. Only after being called to heal witchcraft for foreigners that had been affected by it, did I decide that people coming to the Amazon to participate in the local practice of shamanism deserved to know about it and the potential danger of it. With that in mind I only talked about it when directly asked or when a person in our groups had been affected and were coming to be treated. I have worked directly with people from different parts of the world, including locals in Iquitos and the surrounding areas, suffering from witchcraft.
I would like to share with the tribe community the way that I treat these subjects with our groups. It is common knowledge in the Amazon that there are shamans that use visionary plants to help and or to harm. The ones that use them to harm are called “brujos” and they usually practice for hire, being paid by persons who desire harm perpetrated on another, typically out of revenge. There are shamans that heal and also harm. They are willing to be hired to do both. Because of this, it is very important to find a shaman with whom you feel practices medicine with integrity and with one you trust. When a person drinks ayahuasca they are putting trust in the shaman that the shaman will take care of them when they are in a vulnerable state. It is important to find shamans who dedicate their practice to helping others.
There are shamans that practice only medicine, who will not accept to perpetrate harm. They dedicate their lives to helping others. If you find a shaman that only practices medicine, you can trust that they will give their all to help you, and make sure you are safe through your journeys. I recommend working with these kinds of shamans.
The open discussion about witchcraft is not designed to create fear. It is to create the opposite. I state that to all of our guests. I tell them that when we are informed we have the ability to make decisions that mitigate whatever risk we are taking in participating in these shamanic practices. We can find shamans that will stand by us and make sure we are safe. What we do not understand creates fear. Being left with doubt creates fear. We have the ability to come to traditional shamanic practices, educated in them, and find the love and support that we need.
Blue Morpho supports all the shamans that stand in and practice medicine. We love the practice of medicine. I love the practice of medicine and have given my life to it. We celebrate everyone that has had a positive, life changing experience with Ayahuasca and the shamans that guided them through it, worldwide. It is wonderful to hear of the experiences of others that found love, joy, peace, clarity, understanding, growth, forgiveness, acceptance, compassion and more through their exploration of Ayahausca. It is satisfying to know that Ayahausca shamanism is helping people that are in need.
The comment I made about complaints directed to other centers was part of a discussion I held concerning the imminent legislation of Natural Medicine practices in Peru. I was informed of the complaints placed in foreign consulates by foreigners by the head of the association of shamans in Iquitos. I was discussing the rationale expressed by the government for the legislation. In no way was I promoting Blue Morpho by the comments. The discussion was not addressing witchcraft or other shamans. I was discussing the need for professionalism in our services and the importance of good legal standing to make sure the practice of Ayahuasca shamanism is protected by the government, and not seen as a threat to the physical, mental or spiritual wellbeing of its participants.
I have no control over the comments made by others. I have no way to ensure that I am quoted with accuracy by others. Many comments presented in these forums are not true. Others are taken out of context. There are open ended questions presented here to create doubt about us and our practices. These doubts are not designed to be answered but rather to create fear. They bring into questions issues that are not founded in truth but rather suspicion.
Blue Morpho has been helping people for the last six years. We have worked with hundreds to find love, joy, peace, clarity, understanding, growth, forgiveness, acceptance, compassion and more. We stand behind our success with the guests that have participated in our workshops. We welcome anyone that would like to come to a professional, safe and protected environment to participate in the practice of Ayahausca shamanism.
Sincerely,
Hamilton Souther -
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Re: Blue Morpho
Wed, October 29, 2008 - 9:40 AMThank you very much Hamilton to come in here and clarify your views on these topics. As you state in your post, fear and rumors tend to generate from that which is unknown, so it is a priviledge for us all to be able to hear from you first-hand your thoughts on Blue Morpho and Witchcraft and other topics that people have doubts about here.
Thanks again!
Jav
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Sun, November 16, 2008 - 7:12 AMAlan, since people listen to you, why don't you talk about the foolishness going on down there at BM that smacks of cultism. People are hurling charges of brujeria because they are sycophants and toadies who are being wired to say these things. It's a Capitalistic ploy to try to destroy the competition. Think Bill Gates. But I do think people who adore BM should roll in it.
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Unsu...
Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Tue, October 28, 2008 - 9:13 AM<Why is it that BM constantly tells their clients that all the other shaman/curanderos are brujos?
Why is it that, if you are a BM client, and you go off for a few days and drink with another curandero that you are then thrown out of BM?>
I have attended BM, this did not happen when I was there, I think its just continued malicious gossip.
gossip, gossip, gossip.
not "observations", not "opinions"
just gossip
mert
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Tue, October 28, 2008 - 12:53 PMGossip is 2nd and 3rd hand, not first hand. -
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Unsu...
Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Wed, October 29, 2008 - 7:49 AMAnyone who engages in gossip is a gossiper. Gossip can be create first hand by a someone who engages in it.
I refer to these definitions being used on these tribe threads.
Webster Dictionary:
gos·sip
c: a person who habitually reveals personal or sensational facts about others
2 a: rumor or report of an intimate nature b: a chatty talk c: the subject matter of gossip
Wikipdedia:
Gossip is idle talk or rumor, especially about the personal or private affairs of others. It forms one of the oldest and most common means of sharing facts and views, but also has a reputation for the introduction of errors and other variations into the information thus transmitted. The term also carries implications that the news so transmitted (usually) has a personal or trivial nature, as opposed to normal conversation.
The term is sometimes used to specifically refer to the spreading of dirt and misinformation, as (for example) through excited discussion of scandals. Some newspapers carry "gossip columns" which detail the social and personal lives of celebrities or of élite members of certain communities.[citation needed][dubious – discuss]
in this situation I see the form of gossip being used as:
" passive aggression, as a tool to isolate and harm others"
mert
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Mon, November 24, 2008 - 10:38 PMHi Deryk, my name is Chad. I've tried to put my blog info on this tribe site, though i'm not sure how successfull I've been. I'm not very techno literate. Anyway, I was wondering if you or anyone has any opinions/experiences of
THE AYAHUASCA FOUNDATION
Carlos Tanner ... cheers for any help
much love, Chad
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Sat, November 15, 2008 - 12:05 AMHi Molly,
I highly recommend Blue Morpho.
I just returned from a BM tour and was quite astounded at the level of professionalism and the loving attention given to everyone in our group. I've sat with three other shamans (multiple times with each) but never in such a supportive environment. I hear some folks stating that they don't want to pay for the "westernized" experience and for first-timers I would suggest otherwise. In fact I have found that as a westerner I never really fully understood the ayahuasca ceremony until I sat with Hamilton and Don Alberto.
As a non-fluent Spanish speaker I found there was a huge language barrier to understanding the entire process when sitting with Spanish only speaking shamans. Hamilton goes though a great deal of time, energy and effort to impart a real understanding of shamanistic philosophy which I had never found from any other source. Also, I had never felt totally safe to let it all out. When the shit hit the fan I was extremely grateful to have the support of Hamilton, Don Alberto, a trained staff and thoughtful facilities to support me. I've sat with a wonderful shaman on the floor of a small Iquitos bedroom without a bucket while never actually knowing where the bathrooms is and had and incredible and wonderful experience. And sure, it was much cheaper. But to be honest, I never truly understood what was possible in ceremony and by having the western support network I took my experience to a much deeper level.
The experience at BM is indeed available to westerners but the presence of Don Alberto is anything but western. That man is pure jungle love incarnate and anybody who has ever sat with him will most likely confirm. And I cant say enough of the beautiful icaros sung by Mimi.
I'm not saying that BM is the only place to find this type of support but it is one place and a great place at that and I would suggest for a first-timer that you find a place that caters to westerners and then venture out after that. I feel strongly that there really are no deals for beginners in this area and you don't want to end up with a bad first experience so spend a little more and feel safe and supported in the process wither it is at Blue Morpho or another such place.
Both Don Alberto and Hamilton are great loving shamans and the Blue Morpho staff and facilities are simply splendid.
David
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Sun, November 16, 2008 - 7:04 AMHi Molly, I would highly recommend not going to Blue Morpho. It is a little Capitalistic venture, with ridiculous prices and lots of phoniness. Whenever you start talking big bucks, as is always the case at BM, you are not going to have a really spiritual experience, but rather you will be in a controlled cult-like setting. You have to spend some time in Iquitos, if that is where you are going, and check out the situation. I would highly recommend Don Solon, although he is elderly and last year broke his hip. I hope that he has healed and begun doing ceremonies again. But he is close to 90 years old. His ceremonies cost about $15 and are amazing. One suggestion: search out the old shamans, who have been practicing 40, 50, 60 years. -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Sun, November 16, 2008 - 7:18 AMI'm pretty sure Don Solon isn't doing ceremonies anymore......
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Sun, November 16, 2008 - 6:43 PMWhen I sat with Don Solon he didn't "charge" anything. As a westerner if you are only tipping him $15 then in my world you are slightly misguided. Sure, ceremony is not about money but $15 from a westerner is an insult to that wonderful man. Don Alberto at Blue Morpho is nothing less than Don Solon and the facilities are a sure bit better than the floor of Don Solon's bedroom although I would never pass up sitting with Don Solon wherever he may invite me. Saying people wont have a spiritual experience at one place or another is pure poppycock and reveals your ignorance and lack of understanding. It quite obvious you have a chip on your shoulder Chullachaqui. Best of luck in finding your way out from under it.
David -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Sun, November 16, 2008 - 9:15 PMLet's pay these so called shamans hundreds of thousands of dollars so they can build a McMansion in the middle of the jungle... maybe tear down some rain forest to park a dozen big gas guzzling cars on some fresh asphalt? We don't need another replica of the United States burn down the planet for our consumption ego trip. Material things are cultural furniture for the weak. Protections for the ego. I see guys driving Bentleys that get 8 miles per gallon, so people can peer at them on the freeways and byways... it gives them a feeling of being alive even while they're dead inside. It's this mentality that's bringing the planet to its current phase of destruction. Ayahausca is supposed to heal us from this madness. These arguments about money are making me sick. I wonder if the Ayahuasca stuff really works the way people in this forum are talking about money and the crazy riches paid out to drink this medicine. -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Sun, November 16, 2008 - 10:00 PMIn my experience, when the shamans make money, they buy more land to protect it from the loggers and to try to help preserve and grow medicinal plants. None of them are building mcmansions, driving bentleys - or even chevy's. There's only a couple I know of who are making what could be considered in the US a moderate amount of money, most are struggling just to get by.
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Mon, November 17, 2008 - 9:15 AM"It's this mentality that's bringing the planet to its current phase of destruction. Ayahausca is supposed to heal us from this madness."
This "madness" as you call it is LIFE and has been going on for eternity and will continue to go on for another eternity. We are the beauty and light of god in everything we do (although I too am challenged at times to see it). Ayahuasca invites us to view the word in a different way, in a positive way so that we may be free of the negativity that rules many our our earths inhabitants. Mansions and Bentleys are all beautiful expressions as are palm thatched huts and bicycles. The judgment is in your head as to the positivity or negativity of each. The land at Blue Morpho is not hunted and is set up to protect the natural flora and fauna which has been driven out by the natural expansion of civilization. Forgive yourself for you part in what you call "destruction" and forgive those who honestly seek to make our world a better place though their work albeit shamanism or otherwise. There is no "right" path only the path you are on.
Good luck,
David -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Mon, November 17, 2008 - 11:09 AMWell said, David.
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Mon, November 17, 2008 - 8:05 PMSorry, Omarsky, but if you think you're going to get anything but a lot of mumbo jumbo and self-serving explanations on these sites, you're going to be disappointed. Mostly what you see around here is inflated egos and New Age orientation. No one, except yourself and I, is going to agree with you regarding the poison that is being channeled to the jungle. They just do not see it, being well indoctrinated into the system of Capitalism and greed. Beauty, light of God, ad nauseum.
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Mon, November 17, 2008 - 7:52 PMWell, David, I must say this post only strengthens my stand. First, I would like to ask how it is I have a "chip on my shoulder" because I am railing against what I perceive to be a form of cultural intrusion and a colonialist, patriarchal attitude? People with "chips on their shoulders" seem to have anger of a personal nature; I am speaking for the sake of my friends in the jungle and the social injustice which is being visited upon them. Here we have the perfect example with your talk about "tipping" Don Solon. Who said anything about tips. I gave him exactly what he asked for; he was more than happy, and he and I have a very warm relationship, even to the point that he has a humorous nickname for me; I laugh every time I think about it. (I pray for his recovery.) But then, in maybe what may be your naivete or lack of knowledge, you have decided to label me as "misguided". ( I see humor in your words.) I knew Don Solon years before I drank with him, and was hesitant because of the venue and certain restrictions that I did not care for. One more thing about Don Solon, which may be news to you, is that he lives in one of the finest neighborhoods of Iquitos and is a man of means, one would label him as well-to-do or middle class in the context of Iquitos and the Peruvian economy. You talk about him as if he were impoverished and talk about tipping as if he were a waiter in a restaurant. (Shame on you.) And as far as paying for ceremonies, most of my curandero friends, and they are well known down there, don't charge me anything and don't expect payment. But I have for years sent them money when they wanted to replace the roof of their maloca, etc., before the deluge of Gringoes descended upon the area. These same curanderos had almost exclusively worked with the local populace, that is before the arrival of "us", meaning those who have created the big-money system and the megalomaniacal save-the-world attitude. But now that you have mentioned Blue Morpho, I can tell that you are one of the BMT's (Blue Morpho Toadies) who frequent Tribe. That's okay. too, because as you say (even if it is from a naive position) , BM is on an important mission to save the rainforest. (Think colonialism). Also, I can tell you're a Sham man with discriminating tastes, being that you like really nice facilities. Best wishes on your journey. -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Mon, November 17, 2008 - 8:56 PMHi chullachaqui. I see truth in your soul. I'm not as eloquent as you in your words. I thank God for people in this "Tribe" that can see beyond the creations of ego and fear. Mr. Dave sees beauty in cash, bentleys and other riches. He promotes BM and talks as he knows your friend. He does portray your friend as a quasi-beggar, a kind of waiter, or someone "waiting" for the gringos to kick him some coin he deserves for opening the doors of perception, a gatekeeper for the truth... like he is running some kind of dry cleaner business. I'll be blunt. Dave, you're full of shit. -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Mon, November 17, 2008 - 9:04 PMOmarsky, you're a cage rattler and probably somewhat of a pariah on this site. That's okay: truth often stands alone. Thanks for the comment. You are well spoken, my friend. I just wish there were more people like you, who see through all the bullshit we are indoctrinated with. Cheers. -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Mon, November 17, 2008 - 9:57 PMOmarsky & Chullachaqui; How wonderful it is that you two have found each other. May you tumble in each others arms to the point that your hostile and ignorant edges have softened to the grace of others. I will tumble with you no more.
David -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Mon, November 17, 2008 - 10:42 PMI have a friend who can take you to a nice Ferrari dealership, so you can marvel at the beauty of Pinnafarina. And since you like mansions, come over to Beverly Hills and marvel at the beauty of wealth. We'll go to Fort Knox and count bars of gold. I wanna be your friend and tour guide brother... to all material riches that pull at your heart strings. -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Sat, November 22, 2008 - 9:07 AMOmarsky, what a perceptive and hilarious comment! Did you notice, by the way, that David the Dummy, referred to us as homosexuals in order to insult us? I guess that on top of all that deep spirituality of his, he is a homophobe....and is probably also on the Sarah Palin tribe. Notice that nobody called him on that. Now he has washed his hands of our "hostile and ignorant edges". I guess now he may receive directives from Blue Morpho command center by satellite phone. David the Dummy reminds me a bit of Richard Nixon, with his prejudice-filled, character-assassination attempts. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Sat, November 22, 2008 - 11:02 AM>>>Did you notice, by the way, that David the Dummy, referred to us as homosexuals in order to insult us?<<<
I did not read his remark the way you did. I really thought the reference to tumbling was to the process of tumbling rocks in order to make them round and smooth. Note that he refers to "hostile and ignorant edges" being softened by the tumbling process. I certainly did not think of it as being a reference to homosexuality until your raised the issue.
Still, it is entirely possible that I am naive.
On the other hand, the striking resemblance of tone, style, and view between chullachaqui and Omarksy, both newcomers to this tribe with zero friends, raises -- at least for the cynical -- the question, not of dalliance, but of sock puppetry. But I do not see how that could be the case. A person with deep and honest convictions surely has no need to invent an ally.
And I am certain that issue will be resolved when chullachaqui responds to my earlier request and tells us more about his experiences in Bolivia and Peru, and how those experiences have led him to his current views.
I must add, however, that I do not see how calling someone you disagree with something like "David the Dummy" furthers the conversation.
-- Steve -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Mon, November 24, 2008 - 5:19 AMJust cam across a good article on Reality Sandwich that ponders many of the same topics touched upon in this thread:
www.realitysandwich.com/will_r...e_stand -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Mon, November 24, 2008 - 7:59 AMSomeone open up the tipi flap and let some air in......it stinks in this thread....pee yoo!
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Sat, November 22, 2008 - 12:14 AMsorry to interrupt. just don't know how to post a new thread. just wondering if anyone know if it's possible to travel between port maldonado and rio branco during rainy season... thanks
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Mon, November 24, 2008 - 9:37 PM
ayahuasca (blog entry) Hi, my name is Chad, I'm a 31 yr old male and live in New Zealand.
I came across this tribe whilst trying to find an affordable and good place to go to become involved in ayahuasca ceremonies, and possibly even apprentice as a shaman...
I fo... read more
blog entry posted Fri, November 21, 2008 - 9:18 PM permalink - 0 comments
sorry if this doesnt make any sense, I am having alot of trouble, figuring out how to become a part of this tribe,,, :/ , love Chad -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Mon, November 24, 2008 - 9:46 PMHi Chad,
You are a part of this tribe. -
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Unsu...
Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Tue, November 25, 2008 - 6:28 PMmy opinion: i appreciate that hamilton shared his story and a bit of info about the dieta offered.i like amazonian shamanism because of its fluidity, and the 'you get out of it what you put into it" quality. or atleast that's how it was presented to me. this description offerred seems more like a structured, college course/vacation retreat ("commune with plant spirits" is actually on the schedule and they described the dieta food as 'cuisine"!) the way it's presented to me feels constrictive, fluffed and over-organized. i'm personally happy sleeping on the earthen maloca floor, coming to ceremony when i notice it's been dark a while, and eating plain ol' boiled rice and plantains with maybe a few ants that crawled in. it's part of the proccess for me and has a humbling quality that's unquestionable. i'm not convinced that i'd be humbled at BM if i was to diet there..but to each her own..
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Tue, November 25, 2008 - 6:31 PMI've had some recent conversations with Hamilton, owner of Blue Morpho. It would appear that the conversations that I heard and that Richard Grossman heard were taken out of context. He has spoken of bujeria but not used that as a vehicle to scare his passengers so that if they come back they would come to BM. I know Hamilton, somewhat, and I have a belief that he is correct. He's also been invited to speak at the 5th Amazonian Shamanism Conference and we hope he accepts this invitation. -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Tue, November 25, 2008 - 6:38 PMI'm glad to hear that and I hope he accepts the invitation as well.
Sometimes I lose sight of it, but I really believe that all of the ayahuasqueros need to be in friendly communication and even more need to put aside unhealthy competition.
United we stand and all that. -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Wed, November 26, 2008 - 4:15 PM>>>I really believe that all of the ayahuasqueros need to be in friendly communication and even more need to put aside unhealthy competition.<<<
In the Upper Amazon, there is a very interesting interplay between communication and competition.
Shamans seek to gain power from a variety of sources, including other ethnic groups -- even those groups that have traditionally been at war. There is a belief, for example, that the magic darts of different groups are different from each other, and can be extracted only by one who possesses darts of that particular type; thus a Quichua shaman will visit an Achuar shaman in order to exchange darts, or a Shuar travel to a Canelos Quichua shaman to buy them. In the same way, darts are considered more powerful if they have come from a great distance, so shamans in the jungle are reputed to travel as far as the northern Andes to acquire them. Anthropologist Philippe Descola, as an exotic pale-haired stranger, reports being frequently importuned by Achuar shamans to share his darts with them.
Shamans from some ethnic groups have reputations as being particularly powerful, or particularly skilled in certain areas of specialization, such as love magic or sorcery. In the Amazon, most groups view others as being more powerful shamans than themselves, and therefore worth learning from. The Shuar say that the Canelos Quichua are powerful shamans; the Cashinahua say the same of the Culina. As one Amazonian Indian has put it, jokingly: wherever you go, the great brujos are elsewhere.
While all shamans are competitors, who may at any moment find themselves locked in mortal combat, they are also pan-Amazonian in outlook. A shaman faced with a difficult case may travel to drink ayahuasca with a powerful colleague, preferably far away, with a different culture and ethnic identity. Shamans from different ethnic groups may care for each other’s patients, train each other’s apprentices, and exchange visions, songs, knowledge, and power objects, such as stones or feather crowns. An Achuar shaman, for example, traditionally had to undergo apprenticeship with established shamans in different locations. A Tukano apprentice was expected to live with a shaman of renown in a different region, for several months, even for a year or more, while receiving instruction. Such communication among shamans has been maintained for centuries.
Even though mestizo shamans are very individualistic, there is also a network of relationships among them, which may include transmitting new information or knowledge. Anthropologist Luis Eduardo Luna notes that such shamans often know others who live many kilometers away, and that shamans who live in the city have a communication network with those living in remote areas of the forest. One reason for these networks is that shamans are subject to magical attack by more powerful shamans, and one attacked may turn for protection to a shaman more powerful still. Another reason is the satisfaction of knowing that their untimely death will be an affront to their friends, and will be avenged. :-)
-- Steve
singingtotheplants.blogspot.com/ -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Thu, December 11, 2008 - 5:41 PM"While all shamans are competitors.."
i cant say i agree with this statement because i presently work with a good curandero who is not too fond of competition. -
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Re: Please recommend where to go in Amazon for Ayahuasca Healing
Thu, December 11, 2008 - 5:50 PM<<< "I am intending to find a way down to Peru, Ecuador or Brazil for ayauasca healings" >>>
WHY???
Why not just let Ayahuasca come to YOU?
That's what I did, and looking back on it, i don't regret it one bit.
Make your own Ayahuasca Enhancements, fuck puking and shitting violently, repeatedly!!! lol
If you don't put toxins in your body to begin with, then there WON'T BE ANYTHING in you that has to be "purged!" lol
dissolve ground up MHRB powder in 91% or higher isopropyl alcohol with calcium oxide (CaO) AND some B. caapi X-tract, stir, let it sit, stir,
then let sit until all is dissolved and eventually, until all the isopropyl is evaporated.
You're now left with freebase Ayahuasca, ready to be smoked. Don't smoke more than half-a-pea size amount, pace yourself, until you know how much is good for you.
The addition of the caapi powder X-tract makes it like an authentic Ayahuasca journey, minus everything bad about it (projectile vomiting and ruthless diarrehha).
The caapi X-tract makes the journey extend in duration from 5 mins to several HOURS.
The calcium oxide makes the entire thing active in smoking form.
bliss,
n
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