Tribe.net. Local Connections chullachaqui http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/9c3abc17-2322-49ed-ba3f-a0da78e6e8fe#e22efa23-6512-4679-938f-14bdecb3394e 2008-11-16T14:30:11Z 2008-11-16T14:30:11Z

That is a very beautiful, romantic vision you have of Ayahuasca permeating the U.S. and healing our sick country, while destroying the negativity of Capitalism. But I don't think she is going to do any curing. If anything Capitalism has entered the realm of Ayahuasca and now holds sway. It takes little vision to see what a detructive force Capitalism has been and is being in the jungle. Please check out the amount of money-talk going on in this tribe.

chullachaqui 2008-11-16T14:30:11Z chullachaqui http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/9c3abc17-2322-49ed-ba3f-a0da78e6e8fe#641f14b2-cb60-4976-9381-d0a5f1ebd9f7 2008-11-16T14:22:03Z 2008-11-16T14:22:03Z

Unfortunately, the context in which Ayahuasca is used by us Gringoes down in the jungle has perverted the real meaning of Ayahuasca. If you check out all the comments on this tribe, you will notice that money is mentioned an inordinate amount of times. Just check out all the comments and count how many times money is mentioned and you may come to the conclusion that Ayahuasca is not healing the crisis of Capitalism, but rather Capitalism is contaminating the sacredness of Ayahuasca. I doubt if many people on this tribe will agree, but just count. It's really kind of disgusting what I have seen in the jungle.

chullachaqui 2008-11-16T14:22:03Z rasbaboo http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/9c3abc17-2322-49ed-ba3f-a0da78e6e8fe#e0ebf05c-3e90-437e-9b2f-cf87f5f21455 2008-11-04T07:55:20Z 2008-11-04T07:55:20Z

no.

rasbaboo 2008-11-04T07:55:20Z $item.owner.firstName http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/9c3abc17-2322-49ed-ba3f-a0da78e6e8fe#112535da-b297-48a6-9cd2-4b193cc57927 2008-09-20T01:43:21Z 2008-09-20T01:43:21Z

"The plant mind has something to share with the naked apes" truly the plant conciousness has much to impart: about how to be rooted, how to grow, how to reach up and put for out nourishment and light, and how to give life, take it, and sustain it. to name a few.

$item.owner.firstName 2008-09-20T01:43:21Z D http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/9c3abc17-2322-49ed-ba3f-a0da78e6e8fe#df7ac139-fa32-457a-87ce-8b08b1d25acb 2008-09-19T13:39:33Z 2008-09-19T13:39:33Z

yes plants compete but more they cooperate with one another - their interaction is primarily one of interaction and cooperation The plant mind has something to share with the naked apes

D 2008-09-19T13:39:33Z embrace http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/9c3abc17-2322-49ed-ba3f-a0da78e6e8fe#369cb0bc-f4d7-4862-b3dc-1c09f45be8f4 2008-09-19T13:33:31Z 2008-09-19T13:33:31Z

it is obvious that the system of greed and self interest is breaking down and that, given our numbers and dependencies on that system, there is a necessity to learn to work in concert for our survival and health not only with one another but with plants and animals. as the old business falls away the urgency to come together increases. aya, since it can assist people in shedding imprints, indoctrination, and conditioning can lend to building our new alliances based on interest in the group rather than the self. instances where it furthers self interest, in the larger scheme of a shifting world are small and likely inconsequential. the significant question here is what are we and oneself personally planning on doing for the remainder of our lives to lend ourselves to changes for the benefit of others?

embrace 2008-09-19T13:33:31Z Molly Helene http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/9c3abc17-2322-49ed-ba3f-a0da78e6e8fe#3f1e48ee-cd2d-4788-bdfe-a2e00ccfbc0b 2008-09-16T01:36:21Z 2008-09-16T01:36:21Z

Wow - I really appreciate this thread!

Molly Helene 2008-09-16T01:36:21Z $item.owner.firstName http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/9c3abc17-2322-49ed-ba3f-a0da78e6e8fe#f7b58414-5ee0-4a18-a3a2-19ba67e0f958 2008-09-16T00:26:38Z 2008-09-16T00:26:38Z

Geert (off topic-ly speaking your name makes me think of the little drew barrymore in ET) "Is the story of the human really significant...? " is a grain of sand really significant? it is, we are a moment of creation ... the unification process ... out of the one.. into the many ... back into the one. :) ashes ashes we all fall... "Get it together in a way.. that is worldly.. universal..beautiful... " lol! geeze ... tryin ... but right now all i got's sand. ....glue maybe? ... noNO! lightening! ... wait... then i'll just have glass ... ok ... you'll have to give me some time geert ... you can give it to me ... cause it's all the same anyway .... a moment of creation . " To give in to the greatest pleasures without constructing the mind or the consciousness.... The inspiration for Satan and all that is evil..." FFFffantastic! This is wht the Full moon today is all about! ... And a phenomenal point. freedom of the heart

$item.owner.firstName 2008-09-16T00:26:38Z Geert http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/9c3abc17-2322-49ed-ba3f-a0da78e6e8fe#6a884e6e-695a-469e-bf97-fcbdf3fe5835 2008-09-16T00:17:25Z 2008-09-16T00:17:25Z

I have a blog on the tribe.. THere are two writings on there you might enjoy.... You can check it out... Hope you dig it... Peace Geert

Geert 2008-09-16T00:17:25Z $item.owner.firstName http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/9c3abc17-2322-49ed-ba3f-a0da78e6e8fe#9612cae2-d2a5-4b62-ac92-4322a28fa811 2008-09-16T00:05:07Z 2008-09-16T00:05:07Z

i ought to read your blog if you have one, geert.

$item.owner.firstName 2008-09-16T00:05:07Z Geert http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/9c3abc17-2322-49ed-ba3f-a0da78e6e8fe#1af54874-252a-4fc4-84dc-c754d169a8e1 2008-09-15T23:54:11Z 2008-09-15T23:54:11Z

Good thought, which I agree with wholeheartedly... But... here's the but.... To keep existing as humans, do we need spiritual allignment.' In the comfort of our homes we don't 'need' anything. We need to be safe, sheltered. We don't want to be sick, or fearfull.. What I want to know...reallly ..is.. This ayahuasca experience... which is... magical... to say the least.. No...... what if a truth...exists...and we can sit around it.. like a fire... At the crossroads where all stories meet. .. where we come as one... Is the story of the human really significant...? In the end... did we really matter that much...? What if we could transform this worrying into more hedonism... more rock 'n roll.. more wild wild west... Our existence doesn't end... it is on the spirit that we should concentrate... In our own mind... WHy should one care about anyone else, why not liberate yourself, see the whole... See the thickness of the spirals in which we reside... THe word is so important, but it makes no difference.... What I want to know is... what makes the difference..... THe difference between the whole and the personal... There is a dutch saying.. Don't make your heart a murderhole.. Don't be bad, express yourself. There is only so much... one person can do... What I mean is... Get it together.. Get it together in a way.. that is worldly.. universal..beautiful... There is no 'but' after all Stella... Cause I know we are on the same level... Still my mind keeps wondering about these things.. Maybe it's the poet in me... maybe the psycho ding dong... I don't know... What I do know is that I love it all... 'What' knowledge is only god-given.. How serious should I take myself.... How for granted should I take life... THis is no test, this is no game... The power of the source is bigger then that.. These worries of daily life mean 'nothing'... when death has passed.... That eternal spirit that lives through.. that cosmic confidence.... Some want nirvana, other walhalla. I can drink twelve pints of beer and feel great.. Where does it end...? Nowhere... THere is the trap.... the big big trap.... To give in to the greatest pleasures without constructing the mind or the consciousness.... The inspiration for Satan and all that is evil... Where to begin.. where to end... BTW I just drank a lot of beer... just for the perspective of these words.. so you know... Peace, Love and Drunkenness GEert

Geert 2008-09-15T23:54:11Z $item.owner.firstName http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/9c3abc17-2322-49ed-ba3f-a0da78e6e8fe#580d1eb4-b396-4702-b6ff-8e655d3523e7 2008-09-15T23:29:49Z 2008-09-15T23:29:49Z

there's no stopping Her.

$item.owner.firstName 2008-09-15T23:29:49Z $item.owner.firstName http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/9c3abc17-2322-49ed-ba3f-a0da78e6e8fe#a1da3182-69c6-4165-9abe-f74abe694a5a 2008-09-15T19:15:03Z 2008-09-15T19:15:03Z

... and i think Aya is assisting the destruction of capitalism ... it has clung to her now ... like a thick smoke... entering into the jungles of south america... seemingly threatening the sacred nature of the medicine ...but La Madrecita ... The Vine... has a destiny of her own ... and as sure as capitalism has made it's move towards her ... She has made her move on capitalism ... She has launched herself into the "united" states now. full force ... and she will work as she does in the jungle ... slithering thru the roots... and climbing to the heights ... bringing tall trees and old structures back to the earth ... to be consumed... and renewed. massAya

$item.owner.firstName 2008-09-15T19:15:03Z $item.owner.firstName http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/9c3abc17-2322-49ed-ba3f-a0da78e6e8fe#e4f43ea5-e63e-4793-abe1-e67cc521d1fd 2008-09-15T18:59:07Z 2008-09-15T18:59:07Z

we built capitalism ... out of fear ... and we feed the beast with our fear and lies... it is our job to heal it ... part of this is very likely will be the destruction of the system... it is our duty to make amends with love and the earth. ... it is our destiny as children of the earth and sun.. to honour our parents .. and make right each moment... the past several days i keep thinking of the word messiah ... but in my thoughts it looks like mass-Aya ... :)-

$item.owner.firstName 2008-09-15T18:59:07Z $item.owner.firstName http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/9c3abc17-2322-49ed-ba3f-a0da78e6e8fe#104528ad-31e3-47a1-b415-801f9f73989f 2008-09-15T03:15:06Z 2008-09-15T03:15:06Z

"Now we have to destroy the machine and then create a new social structure that does not rely upon capitalism. " not neccisarily. anything as superficial and un-sustainable as capitalism will naturally wane and die off on its own without our intentional help. it's just not in allignment with sustaining life on earth. maybe life on mars. but not here.

$item.owner.firstName 2008-09-15T03:15:06Z D http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/9c3abc17-2322-49ed-ba3f-a0da78e6e8fe#589f48b5-8bdc-4f34-b7eb-645ff788c209 2008-09-15T00:28:06Z 2008-09-15T00:28:06Z

capitalism is the engine of the machine that seeks to destroy our humanity - we created the machine and its engine. Now we have to destroy the machine and then create a new social structure that does not rely upon capitalism. Can Aya help with this? Can't hurt that is for sure! Obviously, we need all the help we can get.

D 2008-09-15T00:28:06Z $item.owner.firstName http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/9c3abc17-2322-49ed-ba3f-a0da78e6e8fe#cce09c4e-1e75-47c0-919a-5d7f16d289a6 2008-09-14T23:51:13Z 2008-09-14T23:51:13Z

oh nice D, thats really nice. aya is helping along with other energies/entities to push su towards higher vibration, i think on an individual level we become more concious of the positive spectrum of this dimension therefor moving us away from the more negative greedy side of it, capitalism will hopefully be left over there, cant imagine why it wouldnt be.

$item.owner.firstName 2008-09-14T23:51:13Z D http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/9c3abc17-2322-49ed-ba3f-a0da78e6e8fe#5b77353b-2386-4630-8407-b88d6e2358ba 2008-09-14T01:23:56Z 2008-09-14T01:23:56Z

the plant is alive and sentient just as we are - a separate being yet we are one when we interact we are a whole greater than the sum of its parts we sail the infinity of eternity together

D 2008-09-14T01:23:56Z Geert http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/9c3abc17-2322-49ed-ba3f-a0da78e6e8fe#5ebad8f4-0dea-4f15-9724-e4fd4ac76c73 2008-09-14T00:29:13Z 2008-09-14T00:29:13Z

That raises an intersting question. Do YOU create the visions, or does the plant create visions. WHen we get back to the source, how does it interact with the human experience. Truth is only SO thin. THe madness comes with the wisdom... together it is only speech and words.... What makes the difference.... A questiuon I ask myself on many occasion...

Geert 2008-09-14T00:29:13Z clancy http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/9c3abc17-2322-49ed-ba3f-a0da78e6e8fe#4d61847a-38dd-48e8-aea7-61515a7cb70c 2008-09-13T19:13:53Z 2008-09-13T19:13:53Z

. Although there is an indigenous tradition of sorcery using ayahuasca to harm others, i have not seen that in the global patterns of use, in fact, that aspect of its use is dying out. whatever television may portray, we should be careful not to confuse with reality. those plots are dreamed up by groups of people in rooms sifting through stuff they read and heard and trying to put it together in an attention grabbing way. the cleansing, healing and illuminating effects of ayahuasca are what most people seek. you do confuse the issue when you conflate ayahuasca with lsd and other chemicals. it has a different effect and is used is a different way. "There is nothing inherently counter cultural about getting stoned or drinking ayahuasca - all kinds of people do it and always have." expanding one's consciousness is counter cultural in a society that is against such openness. taking such drugs as speed, which helps one (temporarily) be more productive, or coke to rev up ones energy or alcohol to dull one's awareness help repressive societies function, and thus, even though some of them are illegal, they help reinforce the values of the dominant culture. have you taken ayahuasca many times? i have most definitely been schooled on ethics and morals as well as humility by this plant. I know we all have different experiences, but in my experience, it is so dissimilar to other drugs, including peyote and mushrooms and other natural plants. to say a plant can't have a moral core or teachings runs counter to my experience. things are not random, materialism is only one side of the coin, and plants really can have teachings, not simply be tools to be manipulated by whomever can boil them into submission.

clancy 2008-09-13T19:13:53Z $item.owner.firstName http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/9c3abc17-2322-49ed-ba3f-a0da78e6e8fe#51036d17-8947-451f-bf62-b840198a6595 2008-09-13T19:10:57Z 2008-09-13T19:10:57Z

i found that video to be hillarious. it seems like every video account of an aya experience i've seen is always so sensationalized and barely touching upon the depth that can be reached, it makes me want to hurl over in laughter. no pun intended. and to answer the quesiton posted, i think that ayahuasca is likely up for healing the capitaism crisis if we are, and ONLY if we are. WE can heal it, she will help. who wrote that "article?" agreed with Geert, there will always be greed, and there will always be the pure of heart.

$item.owner.firstName 2008-09-13T19:10:57Z Geert http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/9c3abc17-2322-49ed-ba3f-a0da78e6e8fe#01c5ee20-8e64-47e4-be52-34139fd21865 2008-09-13T14:14:58Z 2008-09-13T14:14:58Z

My opinion is there will always be people hungry for power. To be at the top of the herd. What if a striving businessman with the eye on power came into contact with the source. but did not use it's power for spiritual allignment, but for personal magic and sorcery. To know is different then to act. I don't know. Somewhere in the spectrum lies the chemical reaction, on another level the spiritual reaction. The effects can only be described by the actions that follow the experience. I can't imagine people having the same effects all over the globe. There are different spirits that influence the experience. The spirit of the land, of the people, the surroundings. . It comes down to the wisdom that should be taken by heart. The wisdom that is the beginning and the interpreting and the working with the visions. How to put those into a context of a society that is on the edge how to use them to create a change in awareness. The 'wisdom' is the key to change. Not ayahuasca, in that sense it only a tool for metamorphoses of the psyche. A connection to a source that has no morals or politics, it 'is' there and will allways be. It is up to the seers to guide the helpless into breaking loose from patterns and structures that have no spirit in it whatsoever. Wisdom is the keyword in my book. And spirit. Jesus said in the end the poor will be rich and the rich will be poor forever.

Geert 2008-09-13T14:14:58Z tucuna http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/9c3abc17-2322-49ed-ba3f-a0da78e6e8fe#714fe210-d405-49c3-9d4c-39667c4c0fd0 2008-09-13T11:14:18Z 2008-09-13T11:14:18Z

This article is pasted from: http://colonos.wordpress.com/2008/09/12/can-ayahuasca-heal-the-crisis-of-capitalism/ - where you can view the Youtube sequence. It is also mentioned here: http://www.psychonaut.com/index.php?option=com_forum&Itemid=11&page=viewtopic&t=30784〈=en -- and here: http://forums.ayahuasca.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=18095 ==================================== Can ayahuasca heal the crisis of capitalism? ==================================== “Ayahuasca is going global“, said a prominent psychedelic researcher recently, and it is also going mainstream as part of journeying across the planet. In the Californian TV series “Weeds” the leading act, Marie-Louise Parker’s character, Nancy Botwin, drinks ayahuasca under rather suspect circumstances with the leader of a drug-, guns- and human- trafficking Mexican mafia, who is also the mayor of Tijuana for added comic value. The ceremony is led by a young shaman who is told by the spirit of the medicinal brew not to give it to Nancy; she is not ready for it, so to speak, but he uses the words “I should not give it to her” and the gangster boss says “that’s alright, I’ll give it to her then”. Not off to a good start, but then again what do those shamans know about what a mobster’s girlfriend needs? Watch the ayahuasca sequence here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PTz6Jl6HOg There are various issues at play here. Firstly, the most obvious one of the slightly forced drinking where the strong male insists that the little girl drinks despite warnings by the learned practitioner. That, however, is not so bad, - perhaps he knew better.. Much more interesting is that Nancy’s headache for which she is to be treated is a headache that finds its pain in the creeping notion that she is involved in something that is rather unethical, namely the trafficking of humans (from Mexico to the U.S.; presumably as bonded labour, maybe even in the sex industry, we do not know (yet)). In other words, she is going to drink ayahuasca in order to heal the scars that an unethical job cuts in her soul. Mr. Forceful uses it whenever he has “issues” and “to learn”, which in the case of the latter could mean developing business practices of trafficking in humans, in the worst case scenario. Some people say that ayahuasca is inherently a good thing and that in the end those who drink will see the light and come to the force of good, but I don’t think that plants have ethics or moral values, let alone principles. It is true that ayahuasca is a strong hallucinogenic substance that can open many doors, but so are LSD, cannabis and many other good chemicals and plants that have been used to further self-interest by a whole generation of hippies and other conventional people who accumulated primitive social relations in the margin and commodified them with great success in the central market place. There is nothing inherently counter cultural about getting stoned or drinking ayahuasca - all kinds of people do it and always have. Another way to look at it is in terms of something sometimes called black magic - it refers to those who choose or cannot escape the lure of the dark side; black magic has a long and complicated history, but a good indication of what happens when shamanism and the market places come into play with one another is that, as is often the case in the Amazon and the Andes, shamans are invited with cash offers to cast a spell on a market competitor for some up and coming business man. To bring bad luck for his business or to even kill him. Amongst the indigenous and mestizo populations in Peru and Ecuador and beyond the power of ayahuasca can come in the form of a service by a shaman to further one’s self-interest. Something of the somewhat same order is beginning to take shape as ayahuasca goes global: use to further self-interest. Nancy Botwin, is she imitating life or is life imitating her? How often does an organised criminal have to drink ayahuasca in order to maintain an equilibrium in their soul? Drawing up business plans during ayahuasca ceremonies - does that really go on? It probably does and what is worse, I wouldn’t be surprised. Drink with good intentions, say some shamans, and that is a good idea. Think in terms of autonomous self-help groups that heal each other collectively - sort themselves out and (prophylactically) protect themselves from bad social energies and dis-ease in general. It wouldn’t take long to ethnographically establish, however, that the growing ayahuasca industry is not predominantly a people’s revolution, but rather a high class act. It is not to say that there is no altruistic drinking of spirit juice going down, - there sure is; but there is a mainstream culture of ayahuasca in the making that is for people with loads of cash - ayahuasca has become a cash crop. Isn’t that a shame? An ayahuasca super star is coming to Europe and a few days of ceremonies will set you back close to £500 pounds! Going around Peru for a few weeks, only a few thousand dollars (food not included), it’s a gas! Going global is a good thing, I suppose, - the healing powers of the drink are clearly beneficial in a wide range of ways, the stability to life that it can provide and the group healing, community building potential that it so clearly exhibits are promising. Business as usual, however, it is the rich and beautiful who get to skim the cream. Where is the movement of autonomous ayahuasca self-help groups? Ayahuasca spiritual, anarchist fight clubs? It is all too well known that the liberal / capitalist / christian / patriarchal apparatus of white male dominance over the world is faltering - since the the beginning of the World War (did it ever stop, is there more than one World War?) there have been various crises. Much more WAR in the 1940s, but it carried on in many countries around the world, from Korea to Guatemala, then there was May ‘68, an oil crisis and then things began to heat up in the Middle East as the oil is running out and profits not growing as much as they used to. In recent years, Seattle, Gothenburg, Genova etc. etc. Repression is growing - but the crisis was always there, even from within the French Revolution can the State of Exception be traced. Currently airlines, tour operators and financial institutions are crashing like a fish on a bike. People who live in such chaotic systems as the socalled free market obviously need a medicine for the soul in order to carry on carrying out orders, authored as we are by advertising texts, - we need Huxley’s Soma .. and enter ayahuasca: the very crowning healing substance. The new acid, man! Only it’s much better and way more powerful, the Holy Grail of drugs, dude. My head is breaking open for business! This entry was posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 at 17:25 (767) and is filed under Amazonia, Anarchism, Anti-capitalism, Ayahuasca, Ecuador, Globalisation, Psychedelic, Psychedelics, South America, Spiritual, dark forces, healer, shaman, state of exception. Tagged: Ayahuasca, Capitalism, ceremony, drugs, gangster, Globalisation, globalization, going global, headache, healing, Marie-Louise Parker, nancy botwin, Psychedelics, shaman, weeds

tucuna 2008-09-13T11:14:18Z