Advertisement
hi everyone,
i am very inspired by the recent legal battles that have been won by the santo daime church and others. i hear that this ruling currently applies to those distinct traditions and may only be relevant in the ninth circuit for the time being. but it would seem that things are moving in the direction where our practices may gain legal recognition much the same way the NAC has.
so i am curious if yage practices have come to the midwest yet. that is where i am from, wisconsin specifically, but i encountered medicine ways in washington. i understand that there are reasons people may be hesitant to speak up about specifics, but i am not asking for details at the moment, just scouting out whether there may be such groups that i can find when i return home to wisconsin. specifically, i am most interested in shipibo, amazonian mestizo and/or santo daime practice groups. do they exist?
i am very inspired by the recent legal battles that have been won by the santo daime church and others. i hear that this ruling currently applies to those distinct traditions and may only be relevant in the ninth circuit for the time being. but it would seem that things are moving in the direction where our practices may gain legal recognition much the same way the NAC has.
so i am curious if yage practices have come to the midwest yet. that is where i am from, wisconsin specifically, but i encountered medicine ways in washington. i understand that there are reasons people may be hesitant to speak up about specifics, but i am not asking for details at the moment, just scouting out whether there may be such groups that i can find when i return home to wisconsin. specifically, i am most interested in shipibo, amazonian mestizo and/or santo daime practice groups. do they exist?
Advertisement
Advertisement
-
Unsu...
Re: vegetalismo in the midwest
Tue, September 15, 2009 - 7:26 PMpeople there are too worried about giving up their cheese for a cup of tea... i cant blame them... just jokin... ; ) -
-
Re: vegetalismo in the midwest
Tue, September 22, 2009 - 7:25 PMi'm glad that image of wisconsin is so pervasive. it keeps the cool places that exist there from becoming over populated. ;) -
-
Unsu...
Re: vegetalismo in the midwest
Tue, September 22, 2009 - 7:48 PMlol... cheese is probably the coolest thing in the world to me at least .... -
-
Re: vegetalismo in the midwest
Wed, September 23, 2009 - 2:29 PMits either cheese or chai for me, not sure which is more fantastic
-
-
-
-
Re: vegetalismo in the midwest
Wed, September 23, 2009 - 3:43 PM>>>i hear that this ruling currently applies to those distinct traditions and may only be relevant in the ninth circuit for the time being<<<
Just to be clear. The UDV ruling is from the US Supreme Court, and applies to the entire country. The Santo Daime ruling is from the US District Court for the District of Oregon, and applies only to the State of Oregon. Both rulings were made under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which the Supreme Court has ruled applies only the the federal government. Therefore, neither ruling protects you from prosecution under state law.
-- Steve
www.singingtotheplants.com/ -
-
Re: vegetalismo in the midwest
Wed, September 23, 2009 - 4:37 PMWisconsin is one of the states that has a state RFRA, though. -
-
Re: vegetalismo in the midwest
Wed, September 23, 2009 - 6:10 PMTrue, there are state RFRAs. There are also free exercise clauses is most -- probably all, but I haven't checked -- state constitutions. State constitutions can -- and sometimes do -- grant their citizens more liberties than available under the US Constitution. Conversely, there is nothing currently in US Constitutional jurisprudence to prevent a state court from interpreting the state RFRA more narrowly that the US Supreme Court has interpreted the federal RFRA.
This, of course, would be on a state-by-state basis. Federal interpretations of federal RFRA would be persuasive, but not binding.
Who wants to bell the cat?
-- Steve
www.singingtotheplants.com/ -
-
Re: vegetalismo in the midwest
Wed, October 7, 2009 - 5:09 PMHey Steve,
Thanks for sharing your understanding of the law with us. Am I right to say that each group or organization that wishes to use these sacraments would have to go through some process to receive recognition? Say for instance a group under the tutelage of a traditional Amazonian medicine person wanted to legally conduct ceremonies.
The common thread seems to be that the tradition must be established and be able to demonstrate sincere religious intent and historical precedent for the use of the sacrament. In this sense, a group practicing Native American or Mestizo medicine ceremonies would likely not have too much trouble gaining legal acceptance? -
-
Re: vegetalismo in the midwest
Wed, October 7, 2009 - 5:56 PMLet's stick with federal courts, for the sake of simplicity. The question is: What will a court recognize to be a "religion" for purposes of exemption from relevant drug laws under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act? The criteria for this determination are not currently set forth in statute. Rather, the determination is made on a case-by-case basis governed by precedent -- that is, by analogy with how courts have adjudicated this issue in prior more-or-less similar cases.
Here is an analogy. To be considered a tax-exempt church by the Internal Revenue Service under s. 501(C)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, an organization must meet specific guidelines. If an organization fails to meet these standards, it may still be eligible for federal tax exemption, perhaps even as a religious organization, but not as a church. So, here is what the Internal Revenue Service -- and, by extension, the federal government -- thinks a real church looks like:
* Distinct Legal Existence
* Recognized form of worship and creed
* Definite and distinct ecclesiastical government
* Distinct religious history
* Formal code of doctrine and discipline
* Membership not associated with any other church or denomination
* Organization of ordained ministers
* Literature of its own
* Established place of worship
* Regular congregations
* Regularly scheduled religious services
* Sunday schools for religious instruction of youth
* Schools for preparation of its ministers
Now a court is unlikely to use a checklist like this explicitly. But the more an organization looks like this, the more likely it is to be considered to be a real religion by a judge who has grown up in American culture, and who in fact may be a member of a church that does look like this.
Now compare Santo Daime and UDV to this checklist, and you can see that they match up pretty well. Then compare this list with a group conducting a mestizo medicine ceremony, and you can see the difficulties of persuasion.
-- Steve
www.singingtotheplants.com/ -
-
Re: vegetalismo in the midwest
Thu, October 8, 2009 - 12:22 PM"Now a court is unlikely to use a checklist like this explicitly."
There actually IS a checklist that the courts use explicitly in determining what is a legitimate religion in religious freedom cases. It was established in 1993 by the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals in the case of United States v Meyers. It has little in common with the IRS criteria (in fact, you can have IRS tax exempt status and still flunk the religion test in court -- which has happened with marijuana churches). The checklist (referred to by the courts as the "Meyers factors") is:
1) Ultimate ideas (deals with big questions like the meaning of life, death, the universe, etc)
2) Metaphysical beliefs (beliefs must have something to do with spirits, souls, God, other dimensions, etc.)
3) Moral and ethical system (which must be commanded by God or otherwise grounded in the metaphysical beliefs)
4) Comprehensiveness of beliefs (beliefs cannot be =only= about an entheogen, for example; beliefs about your entheogen must be part of a larger belief system)
5) Accoutrements of religion (you should have, or address, at least six or seven of the following:)
a - Founder, prophet, or teacher
b - Important writings
c - Gathering places
d - Keepers of knowledge
e - Ceremonies and rituals
f - Structure or organization
g - Holidays
h - Diet or fasting
i - Appearance or clothing
j - Proselytizing
To see an example of how the courts actually do apply these criteria in real life, see www.forums.ayahuasca.com/phpbb...ic.php . Court opinion, long but fascinating, explains why the Church of Cognizance (a marijuana church) had their religious appeal rejected. -
-
Re: vegetalismo in the midwest
Thu, October 8, 2009 - 1:15 PMThank you. You are absolutely right. United States v. Meyers, 95 F.3d 1475 (10th Cir.1996), did use the criteria you outline. The list was first used by the trial court in that case, "gleaned," as the 10th Circuit put it, from a whole string of earlier Free Exercise cases. What is interesting, though, is that both the trial and the appellate courts found that, under these criteria, the marijuana-using Church of Cognizance was not a religion for purposes of exemption under RFRA.
It is worth looking at exactly what the 10th Circuit said. The court quotes with approval the words of the trial court:
>>>Marijuana's medical, therapeutic, and social effects are secular, not religious.... Here, the Court cannot give Meyers' "religious" beliefs much weight because those beliefs appear to be derived entirely from his secular beliefs. In other words, Meyers' secular and religious beliefs overlap only in the sense that Meyers holds secular beliefs which he believes so deeply that he has transformed them into a "religion."<<<
And the appellate court adds (citations omitted):
>>>Were the Court to recognize Meyers' beliefs as religious, it might soon find itself on a slippery slope where anyone who was cured of an ailment by a "medicine" that had pleasant side-effects could claim that they had founded a constitutionally or statutorily protected religion based on the beneficial "medicine." Finally, the court noted that "Meyers' professed beliefs have an ad hoc quality that neatly justify his desire to smoke marijuana." We agree with the district court. Under the district court's thorough analysis of the indicia of religion, which we adopt, we hold that Meyers' beliefs more accurately espouse a philosophy and/or way of life rather than a "religion." The district court did not err in prohibiting Meyers' religious freedom defense.<<<
And, although the Meyers criteria are certainly more vague than those the IRS uses to determine whether an organization is a church for tax purposes, I am still not sure that an ayahuasca gathering would successfully meet the Meyers criteria.
I should add that, as a matter of my own view of religions, the Meyers criteria are sociologically and philosophically unsophisticated, and seem to be similar to the sort of thing one would read in an undergraduate text on "World Religions." It seems to me that many indigenous, animistic, and shamanist religions -- and not just ayahuasca shamanism -- would fail to meet these criteria.
-- Steve
www.singingtotheplants.com/
-
-
-
-
-
-