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How could such a complex synergistic potion be discovered amongst over 80,000 catalogued plant species of the Amazon forest? Studying Ayahuasca, modern minds have puzzled the origins of the discovery of the Great Medicine, since it is commonly said that being a synergistic potion, there is no effect when only one of the plants are consumed.
How could such a complex synergistic potion be discovered amongst over 80,000 catalogued plant species of the Amazon forest? Studying Ayahuasca, modern minds have puzzled the origins of the discovery of the Great Medicine, since it is commonly said that being a synergistic potion, there is no effect when only one of the plants are consumed.
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Re: On the Origins of Ayahuasca
Sun, August 31, 2008 - 7:06 AMthe link above points to an article I wrote discussing this enigma... -
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Unsu...
Re: On the Origins of Ayahuasca
Sun, August 31, 2008 - 8:16 PM"How could such a complex synergistic potion be discovered amongst over 80,000 catalogued plant species of the Amazon forest?"
my sense is that the plants told us themselves which to use and how to prepare them. intuitively.
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Re: On the Origins of Ayahuasca
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 2:44 PM"Studying Ayahuasca, modern minds have puzzled the origins of the discovery of the Great Medicine, since it is commonly said that being a synergistic potion, there is no effect when only one of the plants are consumed."
Yes, it is commonly said, but Vine alone DOES have an effect, and the Vine guides to other Plants. The Indians consult the Vine to discover and learn many different Plant medicines, not only the Leaf.
What is strange is that modern minds should find Plant communication to be so incomprehensible, and that modern minds should so casually discard what the Amazonians (Indians and mestizos alike) say, that the Plant spirits guided the discovery of the Great Medicine and continue to guide its discovery. -
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Re: On the Origins of Ayahuasca
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 2:47 PMyea... the link above points to the essay which says as much Gayle :)
it surveys the available 'rational explanations' and then discusses the role of intuition and plant communication
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Re: On the Origins of Ayahuasca
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 4:10 PM"modern minds should so casually discard what the Amazonians (Indians and mestizos alike) say, that the Plant spirits guided the discovery of the Great Medicine and continue to guide its discovery."
It's tragically humorous how modern man seems to think they always have the key to the problem. "Oh yeah, these fellas have been studying the matter for many thousands of years, but clearly their explanation is gibberish."
Uuuh, yeah, totally, lol! :)
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Re: On the Origins of Ayahuasca
Wed, September 10, 2008 - 3:15 PMActually it is very simple... Ask any Shaman... The Plants Told them, Themselves...
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Re: On the Origins of Ayahuasca
Sat, September 13, 2008 - 4:32 AM
That plants talk is not just a metaphor or an abstract explanation for a divine mode of communication, but a simple fact of observation. Sometimes an ayahuasca vine takes over a whole tree - now who would doubt that a little vine which can colonise a whole big tree is a powerful one? Have you looked at its flowers? Its shapes and twists and turns - its signature is one of power.. -
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Unsu...
Re: On the Origins of Ayahuasca
Sat, September 13, 2008 - 12:28 PMthat's right, it's NOT just a metaphor..the vine to me has a very distinct voice.
however i'm not convinced that it is in any way more "powerful" than any other plant. more medicinal, yes, often. more exciting, yes, especially lately. more dominating, yes, as explained in tucana's example. but the power of the plant kingdom does not belong to ayahuasca alone. it is a force that is shared by each part of the jungle, and by each green living thing on earth.
i wonder what ayahuasca would be without her home, the jungle, to plant her roots.
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Re: On the Origins of Ayahuasca
Fri, September 19, 2008 - 7:38 AMAccording to my maestro, don Juan, extraterrestrial beings from the White Brotherhood brought ayahuasca to this planet and gave it to the people of Peru so that they might evolve their consciousnesses more quickly. Ayahuasca told the people of the Amazon to find chacruna and to mix the two together to produce brighter visions. It is false to say, however, that there is no effect when only one of the plants is consumed, as to this day, several tribes only use ayahuasca to connect with the spiritual dimensions. In the book, "One River" by Wade Davis, an experience by the grandfather of ethnobotany, Richard Evans Shultes, is given where he attends a ceremony and takes an ayahuasca brew that contained only ayahuasca. He admits that to his surprise, his visions were the brightest and most powerful he had ever experienced, and he had attended many ceremonies prior to that.
It is incorrect to suggest that the ayahuasca brew is merely an orally potentiated DMT experience, for there is ample evidence to show that ayahuasca alone has amazing properties which science still has yet to understand fully. Anti-depressant medications also use MAO inhibitors like the ones isolated in the ayahuasca vine (harmine, harmaline, and tetra-harmaline) so there is already evidence that the vine alone has effects. Many curanderos would say that the DMT containing plants make the visions brighter, but that the ayahuasca is the root, which is why the brew is called ayahuasca, and not named after the DMT containing plants. -
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Re: On the Origins of Ayahuasca
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 4:25 AMi really like the jaguar idea,
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Re: On the Origins of Ayahuasca
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 4:42 AMCarlos --
I agree with what you have said about the power of the ayahuasca vine by itself. I have two questions.
I am not sure it is correct to say that the ayahuasca drink is *always* named after the vine and not the companion plant. For example, it is my understanding that the Shuar in southeastern Ecuador call the vine natém, the companion plant yaji, and the drink natém, while the closely related Aguaruna call the vine datém, the companion plant yáhi, but the drink yáhi. If my understanding is incorrect, I would be grateful to be corrected.
I read Wade Davis's account of Schultes's ayahuasca experience a little differently than you do. As I understand it, Schultes, at Puerto Limón, drank an infusion derived solely from ayahuasca bark, and he experienced “subtle visions, blues and purples, slow undulating waves of color.” Then, a few days later, he tried the mixture with chagraponga. The effect was considerably brightened--“reds and golds dazzling in diamonds that turned like dancers on the tips of distant highways.” If you have a page cite where Schultes says that ayahuasca alone produced "visions [that were] were the brightest and most powerful he had ever experienced," I would be grateful for your help. My understanding has always been that visions induced by ayahuasca without a companion plant were "dark" rather than bright, but here too I would be happy to be corrected.
Warm regards.
-- Steve
singingtotheplants.blogspot.com/
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