Tribe.net. Local Connections CG http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#7101a5f0-82a4-4cfe-8b1f-3d726fe3a89f 2009-07-21T00:45:12Z 2009-07-21T00:45:12Z

To late Boo Boo, I posted the scary beasts first, and get a grip please, a few sentences doesn't make a letter. A letter is generally written on paper and mailed to someone. Your talking about simple tribe messages.

CG 2009-07-21T00:45:12Z chullachaqui http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#47d1c311-26f4-4597-a862-4edceacabda3 2009-07-20T15:07:25Z 2009-07-20T15:07:25Z

It,s interesting to read CGs comments, which are seemingly from a person of spirit. I would like to share with you that this gentleman has sent me letters on numerous occasions that are not only hate filled, but also at this point have degenerated into threats of murder. I am glad to share these letters with anyone who would like to see the CG behind the mask.

chullachaqui 2009-07-20T15:07:25Z Michael SJ http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#feb369e7-ea91-41a6-838f-a1382f89066c 2009-06-09T03:10:05Z 2009-06-09T03:10:05Z

I work daily with my teacher Lucho and he was fairly low key about it but he said that as I´m gaining psychic strength from my training I´m getting too powerful to be doing that sort of thing. He stresses love in his work and he said that my attacking people is not what he expects from me and that I need to decide whether I want to be a curandero or a brujo. He has been teaching me how to control my marecion and we´ve had 10 or so ceremonies since then but nothing similar has happened. Now whenever I start to feel myself moving that direction I am able to resist it and quickly move on to things more positive. I followed up the information from some of the posts in the thread and have a much better understanding of how ayahuasca has been a tool for warfare and psychic attacks forever, but as much as I want to turn my enemy inside out I´m working to take the higher road and counter his evil with good.

Michael SJ 2009-06-09T03:10:05Z MJ http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#8f1dfec1-86b4-4ab4-b525-9e84e0de49c1 2009-06-08T17:10:55Z 2009-06-08T17:10:55Z

you know, I am reading lots of great advice and comments here, but nothing from the original author of this post. I would like to hear from you. I myself have had similar experiences, but I will keep them to myself for now...

MJ 2009-06-08T17:10:55Z Mike http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#5a6868eb-eb43-49b6-8255-bc59bf43d334 2009-05-11T04:38:19Z 2009-05-11T04:38:19Z

One of the first psychiatrists to work with harmaline and ibogaine as well as MDA & MDMA in the 60's, the Chilean Claudio Naranjo, noted that the 1st two could indeed bring out aggression in people, particularly ibogaine. So it is definately not unknown. Maybe try working with San Pedro on this issue, I've found it very good personally for making peace with people.

Mike 2009-05-11T04:38:19Z David http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#6815f619-d528-436c-acac-c5b015453b04 2009-05-07T07:14:48Z 2009-05-07T07:14:48Z

Yes, I believe everything is love. But that is only half the equation. The other half is: love is everything. Love is birth and death. Love is gardens and guns. Love is hate, earthquakes and neutron bombs. Its all love and its all beautiful. And hate, rage and anger are all beautiful expression. Such vitality, such connection to source. They are every bit as beautiful as joy, compassion or bliss. I feel the hard part for me is to understanding what its like to have someone in my life that truly wants to kill me. I find it easy to spill out ideas and philosophy sitting in my easy chair with my computer in my lap, but what is it like to be in the position to have my faith tested, such as having someone out to kill me (and if that isn't your personal flavor or terror then pick one that works for you). For it is then that any of this means anything. Its easy to be nice and loving when the world seems to be on my side. It when the terror strikes that we find out what we are made of, when we find out if we practice what we preach, if we truly have the control of our lives we speak of. And I agree with Rebecca Rose: "ts a total fallacy that ayahuasca is all about rainbows and fairies and clouds and angels." Yes, I feel ayahuasca is about life, and life in all of its complex nitty gritty glory - the "good", the "bad" and everything in between. I feel the opportunity in ceremony is to realize that these are emotions and that we have a choice in the matter. Putting these emotions under observation is the first step in mastering them and eventually controlling them. Once someone has the ability to step aside from their emotions they own a type of mastery of life. This is a rather challenging proposal even with the day to day things that life throws our way, let alone something of immense proportions Michael speaks of. By being engrossed in emotions the enemy is in control. We give our power away to others so easily. The power to enrage us, to make us angry, to make us hate. The power to use our life energy in ways that if we had a choice we would use otherwise. Once we are able to separate ourselves from our emotions, and make a choice as to how we want to feel, we gain control and power over our lives. Yes, it's possible to feel compassion for ones mortal enemy, I'm not denying the middle path, but that would certainly be a cosmic hole-in-one. Perhaps its asking a lot of someone in this type of situation and the illumination of stepping stones would be well received. Late night ramblings bouncing around in my cranium needed to get out. Much respect for everyone here and their ideas, views, suggestions and words of wisdom. You all make me think, contemplate, and remember what is important in life. Thank you! D p.s. I've found that some shamans hold a tighter circle, and don't want anybody to leave, while others seem OK and even encouraging to those wanting to wander a bit, especially if they want to make a lot of noise..

David 2009-05-07T07:14:48Z Nobuoni + http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#392648a6-6867-4c61-83ca-8f0a1eb2ef14 2009-05-06T19:17:03Z 2009-05-06T19:17:03Z

Damn' I just remembered of why I must leave this tribe ! ! Many Blessings' love & light' Remember to love each other' Nobuoni + :)))

Nobuoni + 2009-05-06T19:17:03Z $item.owner.firstName http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#e77596d0-f97a-4d84-b27a-d2bd572d400e 2009-05-06T19:10:07Z 2009-05-06T19:10:07Z

"But what sort of ayahuasca ceremony are you partaking of as of when you can just get up and walk out of the circle" are you saying youve never been in a ceremony where you could get up and leave the circle? if you wanna go to the bathroom or purge or look at the moon or deal with a mortal enemy in a way that might disturb the people around you, i say go get some privacy.. the shaman can keep a psychic eye on you.

$item.owner.firstName 2009-05-06T19:10:07Z $item.owner.firstName http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#64de479d-fdd0-43bd-a515-7dba210a81bd 2009-05-06T19:02:34Z 2009-05-06T19:02:34Z

aya can definately stimulate anger and rage to help us deal with it. ts a total fallacy that ayahuasca is all about rainbows and fairies and clouds and angels. to work with the medicine is to be a warrior...we want to beleive that the concepts of good and evil are out of touch, but when it comes down to it, everyone has to make a choice: to harm or to heal? a goodway to have an enemy is to be so connected to your healing that you absolutely will not tolerate otherwise. it can be a service to those around you, toyour enemy themselves and to yourself. dont put negative energy INTO it, dont send them your anger, but simply observe and be as loving as possible. the dark spirits eventually get bored/scared/repulsed by love and eventually get outta town, leaving you and your enemy better of than before.

$item.owner.firstName 2009-05-06T19:02:34Z Cyclura http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#1dcc8852-b68c-4c77-b5f9-5a39503094dd 2009-05-06T15:14:59Z 2009-05-06T15:14:59Z

"I don't think so. LLB is pretty fearless" After reading a few of his posts, he seems to be too full of anger and hate for me to consider him a credible "shaman". Be careful around these kind of people.

Cyclura 2009-05-06T15:14:59Z Nobuoni + http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#dffb9275-76f7-4130-8c57-884fe4665474 2009-05-06T15:08:37Z 2009-05-06T14:56:40Z

No disrespect meant here' But what sort of ayahuasca ceremony are you partaking of as of when you can just get up and walk out of the circle' This circle is for your protection under the wing of the curandero that is holding space' If you freak or get into troubles' how is anyone going to help you if you just up and walk off' A lot of issues going on here brother' Ritual and ceremony' you follow the ritual that walks the path for the ceremony' you break circle' you bust up the ceremony' walk off of ritual' If so' then why are you in ceremony in the first place' if you can no hold ritual' Ritul gives focus to the ceremony' Meditation takes a great deal of practice following certain patterns' Ayahuasca is an even harder disipline that surely follows certain patterns' Get the ritual correct first before you go jumping into ceremony un-prepared' I feel you should lay on the ground the next time this happens and let it evolve into something else' something way more productive' you shall no die' only think you are' make you stronger for it' Get guidance from a curandero' one that will sit with you an walk you through' There is a most beautiful radiant light on the other side brother' I pray you learn to embrace it with all your life' with a passion' or you are walking upon the wrong path' Ayahuasca is the path of the Warrior' one of great strengths' compassions' and love' Be well Many blessings love and light' good energies to you' Nobuoni +

Nobuoni + 2009-05-06T14:56:40Z Nobuoni + http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#2e85e845-69af-49b3-936b-f0061678b608 2009-05-06T01:53:43Z 2009-05-06T01:53:43Z

Nicely put Sailin' To remember' you are your enemy ! ! Learn to deal with yourself and others with compassions and love' Be loved Nobuoni +

Nobuoni + 2009-05-06T01:53:43Z Sailin http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#f89d984e-571b-44bd-abb2-804cda7eea8b 2009-05-06T01:04:51Z 2009-05-06T01:04:51Z

hmm, words are hard to use properly...by 'face your nemesis' i mean find the strength to see the things about yourself that he is reflecting at you, and find the strength to love and accept these things in both yourself and him/her. whatever you do, resist the urge to take the bait and inflict your pain because it will always ripple back at you...maybe it's the butterfly effect that has LLB seeing butterflys everywhere? peace

Sailin 2009-05-06T01:04:51Z Sailin http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#cf6327e6-1fa2-4381-b91b-5d6841567d9e 2009-05-06T00:08:44Z 2009-05-06T00:08:44Z

p.s. just the fact that you are feeling anger and hatred toward someone you are obviously a little bit afraid of is you breaking the inertia of fear and finally feeling strong enough to win back your power...so ride that wave, use that energy to face your nemesis.

Sailin 2009-05-06T00:08:44Z Sailin http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#8c6dd00d-96a0-4775-9c86-e2df6cc66fd8 2009-05-06T00:06:17Z 2009-05-06T00:06:17Z

yah mon...i have been to this sort of place in ceremony. this is like the pins and needles of your soul as it wakes up, just like a limb you slept on for too long. and yah, it smarts...the trick for me has been seeing the power in it, the raw energy and passion (hey, hitler had passion like christ did, he just chose to express it in a nastier way)....every moment of every day our inner hitler plays chess with our inner ghandi. it is important to realize it is just a 'game' or illusion and not award the winner total dominion of our identity, and posession of our power. i find after these types of angry ceremonies, the next one can be a real release of sadness, which is the emotional pressure that when blocked and explodes into anger. so the curtain on your psychic kobuki theatre has been pulled back, and you see the toxic nature of the emotions you are dealing with. i have been through this with an 'enemy' and with the resolution and reconciliation of him back into my heart, the integration back into the cast of characters in my own internal universe, i was healed of the very sickness i blamed him of cursing me with. it was definitely my blame and fear of him for my sickness that had allowed it to be cursed upon me in the first place. you are at a very important doorway to your healing. good luck bro.

Sailin 2009-05-06T00:06:17Z Nobuoni + http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#7023ac68-c384-4c0c-89e7-cf5a1e5b1888 2009-05-05T22:10:51Z 2009-05-05T22:10:51Z

Evil is a concept created of religion ! The old saying goes' only the evil of what men seek or dream to do' The instincts of survival have no concept of evil' Bliss Nobuoni + Ayahuasca is about intent ! !

Nobuoni + 2009-05-05T22:10:51Z Dzikus http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#87c2746c-c618-46e4-9b7a-ae3721662f33 2009-05-05T21:50:31Z 2009-05-05T21:50:31Z

In my experience, Ayahuasca discourages evildoing, but then again, what is considered evil in the West doesn't have to be so in cultures closer to nature and governed by its laws more than ours is. The notions of good and evil are not constant across the universe. The belief that something is "evil" comes from compassion. And the more we identify with the object, the more compassion we are able to feel for them. For example, killing is generally considered evil, since we don't want to be killed ourselves, but there are always boundaries to it. We kill animals for food, kill pests to protect our crops, kill bacteria with antibiotics to combat disease, etc. and most of us don't see anything wrong in it. Why? Because animals/pests/bacteria are not "us". OK, they are a little bit like us, but "our" benefits of killing "them" usually outweigh any second thoughts we might have. In the same way, one jungle tribe can kill / plunder / rape etc. members of another tribe and believe it's okay. The same can apply on other levels of social organization, e.g. family within a tribe.

Dzikus 2009-05-05T21:50:31Z *Richard http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#1bbf65d0-896b-4c45-b7bb-c02a7006f8f1 2009-05-05T20:04:08Z 2009-05-05T20:04:08Z

I don't think so. LLB is pretty fearless.

*Richard 2009-05-05T20:04:08Z Nobuoni + http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#7a4c5185-0e63-4eb3-8902-6bfa1aa62a1a 2009-05-05T20:03:43Z 2009-05-05T20:03:43Z

Thank you embrace' I use it as reminder to myself' often :))) Blessings Nobuoni +

Nobuoni + 2009-05-05T20:03:43Z Nobuoni + http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#21fbd096-2331-4eb4-ae2b-47d3dc93c5b7 2009-05-05T19:55:44Z 2009-05-05T19:48:31Z

Why are you dropping this tribe? Not clear what or why. Fear of Brujio from those that use Ayhuasca with ill intent ! The mirror is the reflection Blessings love & light Nobuoni +

Nobuoni + 2009-05-05T19:48:31Z *Richard http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#8099dfff-6f91-4947-a0d3-2d4307f686bb 2009-05-05T19:34:04Z 2009-05-05T19:33:52Z

Thank you, and likewise. Why are you dropping this tribe? Not clear what or why.

*Richard 2009-05-05T19:33:52Z embrace http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#e2855db9-59ed-488f-83ee-29fd50d19083 2009-05-05T19:11:01Z 2009-05-05T19:11:01Z

michael i have been blessed with the gift to be able to "see" these substances (among other things) without ingesting anything to do so. a lot of our negative emotions are thick and sooty like this. the deeper and darker, as you found, more so. i tell you this to sort of validate what you experienced. along with consciously finding your way to understanding and forgiveness can be the work to clear your body/field of this substance. because of its nature it can inhibit free energy flow within you and possibly collect and contribute to illness. i have no doubt the shaman could see it or could assist you in clearing it out. i also believe that, as nobu and rodrigo point out, you are finding your way to forgiveness and acceptance. remember that our enemy is ourselves. anyone in our life who annoy or inspire hatred or fear are our mirrors. it is not ever about that person. no matter what. meditate on this and you will no doubt find the wisdom to deliver you to understanding.

embrace 2009-05-05T19:11:01Z embrace http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#d249cb6e-3b87-46a2-9427-5debedf9382a 2009-05-05T18:54:38Z 2009-05-05T18:54:38Z

love - the bottom line, eh, nobu?

embrace 2009-05-05T18:54:38Z Rodrigo http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#88b72bd9-6c5e-466d-bafc-4bbb72849e79 2009-05-05T18:32:08Z 2009-05-05T18:32:08Z

Thanks, Embrace!

Rodrigo 2009-05-05T18:32:08Z Nobuoni + http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#70365571-7005-423c-b099-7e2f6d512692 2009-05-05T18:26:59Z 2009-05-05T18:23:32Z

OK' I have one simple comment to all of this' Everything is made of MIND' conciousness in motion' The way you look to see' is of what you get in return' INTENT! No one can hurt you' unless you give them"power " to do so' "STOP GIVING AWAY YOUR POWER" "LOVE YOUR ENEMIES AS YOU LOVE YOURSELF' DIS-ARM THEM" "HOLD OF ONLY LOVE" Reciprocation can 'KILL' Hold of only love' There are no torrents of water that can quench the fires of love' LOVE Nobuoni +

Nobuoni + 2009-05-05T18:23:32Z embrace http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#b902c04d-4b3d-400d-800b-4d8f9c355605 2009-05-05T18:05:46Z 2009-05-05T18:05:46Z

"Go your way and try to figure why this is happening and what can you do in your heart to let go of this tie. Unknot the not, by yourself, and walk your way. You do your part and pray that he find his." rodrigo, beautiful advise!

embrace 2009-05-05T18:05:46Z Rodrigo http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#387b3d2c-1d7e-4890-88aa-906bc13581eb 2009-05-05T18:03:50Z 2009-05-05T18:03:50Z

Hi, Michael. It reminded of a vision I had one day of a friend of mine, not a mortal enemy by the way, but with whom I have a very delicate relationship. I clearly saw that I was hit in my throat by the arrow of her bow during a battle. It was way, way back, centuries ago. I felt her rage and the energy that came with it, but I also felt compassion. It was sort of funny, because I saw her eyes in the distance as she was purposely targeting me. I say funny because I didn’t reciprocate the hate. What I took from this experience is that we all go way back, interlaced in lives and experiences and somehow we need to understand why we suffer. To have this realization that everything painful that we partake reverberates for ages until it is cleared of disharmony. Go your way and try to figure why this is happening and what can you do in your heart to let go of this tie. Unknot the not, by yourself, and walk your way. You do your part and pray that he find his. Be well,

Rodrigo 2009-05-05T18:03:50Z embrace http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#c9a5cbf5-79fc-4101-920a-fb93f678b223 2009-05-05T18:01:38Z 2009-05-05T18:01:38Z

"I would have to say that violence against people is not sacred. It is not about sacred vs. profane in my view, but about balance." i have to agree based on my limited experience with the old cultures in the amazon. one place we went to had a little stone bunker not big enough to stand or lie down. if someone becomes too aggressive (or too violent drunk) they are kept in this until they admit it. i'm not sure where all this theory comes from, i'm curious what steve who spends a lot of time with the shuar could tell us. i think i will message him and see if he can contribute to the discussion ...

embrace 2009-05-05T18:01:38Z Cyclura http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#d28da0aa-0605-4d98-a17c-f78df3088493 2009-05-05T17:21:51Z 2009-05-05T17:21:51Z

llb said: "its also interesting to know that in many animist cultures that do not have a distinction between sacred and profane everything in life is sacred... including having an enemy, stealing what his enemy has, killing his or her enemy... all of those things are sacred... if nature is your example of how to live and nature is sacred... one can watch animals steal, and kill with impunity... a sacred dance, drinking a sacred medicine... stealing a horse, taking a slave, killing any enemy tribe all of those things where sacred to an animist culture depending on who we are talking about of coarse... " I do not believe this is an animist perspective, but a Western one. Having come from what would be called an "animist" tradition, I would have to say that violence against people is not sacred. It is not about sacred vs. profane in my view, but about balance. Too much negative feelings gets you out of balance. Too much war, killing, hatred--very out of balance. I have not done ayahuasca, but I have been on the receiving end of witchcraft in the hurtful sense-- envy and jealousy from someone caused me to get sick, and out of balance. A good dose of plant medicine worked out this physical and spiritual imbalance. Thoughts have power I learned. I would definitely try to work with the anger feelings toward the enemy and rebalance them toward a more positive feeling. Maybe let go of all that poison before it poisons you. --Just my two cents.

Cyclura 2009-05-05T17:21:51Z Nobuoni + http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#9b6ed45a-98f0-40b2-abc0-8fe9e1a84dd2 2009-05-05T11:47:41Z 2009-05-05T11:47:41Z

Be steady and firm and very careful of what you create to use through ceremony' After all' this is Ayahuasca we are speaking of here' The mirror is the reflection' Go in Peace' Return in Peace' Walk in Love' Love is your mightiest tool brothers n' sisters' Keep tracking the love ! LOVE Nobuoni +

Nobuoni + 2009-05-05T11:47:41Z CG http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#a6916129-cd39-421e-b091-e80e61cccd2c 2009-05-05T08:02:17Z 2009-05-05T08:02:17Z

And here's one from the butterflies... It's impossible not to believe what you see, and perceptions are built up on the basis of experience, and experience leads to belief. It's not until beliefs are fixed in experience that perception stabilizes. In effect then, what you chose to believe, you will see, (and nothing means anything until you say it does, and meaning is a choice you make.) :)

CG 2009-05-05T08:02:17Z Michael SJ http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#9eb05c8d-c199-4ea7-9b1a-ccd43c892456 2009-05-05T07:59:48Z 2009-05-05T07:59:48Z

Without sharing the whole soap opera, if I didn´t have someone incredibly powerful protecting me he would have already done it.

Michael SJ 2009-05-05T07:59:48Z CG http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#f40bc3d6-38ef-4358-a659-9cdddc6bf077 2009-05-05T07:29:15Z 2009-05-05T07:29:15Z

To Create an Enemy Start with an empty canvas. Sketch in broad outline the forms of men, women, and children. Dip into the unconscious well of your own disowned darkness and with a wide brush stain the strangers with the sinister hue of the shadow. Trace onto the face of the enemy the greed, hatred and carelessness you dare not claim as your own. Obscure the sweet individuality of each face. Erase all hints of the myriad loves, hopes and fears that play through the kaleidoscope of every finite heart. Twist the smile until it forms the downward arc of cruelty. Strip flesh from bone until only the abstract skeleton remains. Exaggerate each feature until man is made over into ravenous beast, vermin, insect. Fill in the background with malignant figures from ancient nightmares of devils and demons. When your icon of the enemy is complete you can kill without guilt and slaughter without shame. The thing you destroy will have become the enemy of your God, an impediment to the sacred dialectic of history. From "Faces of the Enemy", reflections of the hostile imagination, by Sam Keen. Joseph Campbell called it "an essential document of our time".

CG 2009-05-05T07:29:15Z David http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#37711c6d-a733-45d4-b910-6b0108c832ba 2009-05-05T05:54:26Z 2009-05-05T05:54:26Z

"I have a mortal enemy in my real life upon whom in previous sessions I have tried to work on understanding and forgiveness, but the other night when the thought of him came up in my session I was filled with a hatred and rage I have never felt before." "mortal enemy" = someone who wants to kill you. Are these your words? Do you own them? Words are always powerful and at times dangerous. If this person actually wants to kill you then perhaps hatred and rage are appropriate. The experience of these emotions clarified by ayahausca might themselves be extremely frightening. Care should be taken with what you are saying here as most arguments are misunderstandings. Take the time to say exactly what you mean. If this person is not your "mortal enemy" then perhaps some clarity is in order. Best of luck, D

David 2009-05-05T05:54:26Z $item.owner.firstName http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#16db0743-b98c-4405-91f5-ccf194606e16 2009-05-05T05:01:22Z 2009-05-05T05:01:22Z

"If you use it for harm you are following the path of brujeria. An easy path to follow, and it is easy to cause harm to others in that way,. However, you can also use it for your own healing." one last thing before i drop this tribe again... just because i love richard! brujeria and that concept of working with the medicine to do harm is not universal richard... not all tribal people that work with ayahausca see it that way... i even wonder if the distinction of curandero, brujo, and chaman are total inventions of post colonial amazonia... what i do know is that they are not distinctions which all of the people who work with yage or natema make... but it is a distinction that peruvian "ayahausca" drinks seems to make... ok im dropping this tribe... pax...

$item.owner.firstName 2009-05-05T05:01:22Z Geert http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#7a4b00e6-b37a-4b12-a1dc-d2cc88c504d3 2009-05-05T04:59:19Z 2009-05-05T04:59:19Z

Why... what...?

Geert 2009-05-05T04:59:19Z $item.owner.firstName http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#7103b09c-6187-493d-ad7b-829dda5c6794 2009-05-05T04:55:01Z 2009-05-05T04:55:01Z

I also love how folks love to take all the things they like from animist traditional people as long as its supports their own desires and then refuse to acknowledge all the things they dont like... hey another butterfly! good luck with your ceremonies bro... i just remembered why im no longer a member of this tribe im out!

$item.owner.firstName 2009-05-05T04:55:01Z *Richard http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#9c272bc4-dd4b-4794-a265-b6902b5189f3 2009-05-05T04:51:47Z 2009-05-05T04:51:47Z

The medicine didn't cause the hatred and rage, it made it conscious for you. Now your choice is what to do with it. If you use it for harm you are following the path of brujeria. An easy path to follow, and it is easy to cause harm to others in that way,. However, you can also use it for your own healing. What is an enemy? Who do you really hate? Who is doing the hating? Why do you hate? Who is the hatred really harming? What is forgiveness? What is letting go? I think these questions can help to start to heal. What is peace? What is love? Why did Jesus say to love your enemies? Dig deep here and don't accept the easy answers; dig deeper.

*Richard 2009-05-05T04:51:47Z $item.owner.firstName http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#5ad7016e-9fdc-4432-8a03-3524693d4882 2009-05-05T04:51:25Z 2009-05-05T04:51:25Z

its also interesting to know that in many animist cultures that do not have a distinction between sacred and profane everything in life is sacred... including having an enemy, stealing what his enemy has, killing his or her enemy... all of those things are sacred... if nature is your example of how to live and nature is sacred... one can watch animals steal, and kill with impunity... a sacred dance, drinking a sacred medicine... stealing a horse, taking a slave, killing any enemy tribe all of those things where sacred to an animist culture depending on who we are talking about of coarse... seems like there are alot of value judgments palced upon this fellows experience of having a mortal enemy... ; )..... look a butter fly!

$item.owner.firstName 2009-05-05T04:51:25Z $item.owner.firstName http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#d6f54c76-9d45-4deb-bfcf-e25caa2e502b 2009-05-05T04:13:12Z 2009-05-05T04:13:12Z

another thing... ayahuasca is also connected to jaguar http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqGDv0KCJl8&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcolonos.wordpress.com%2F2008%2F10%2F09%2Fvideo-jaguar-eating-ayahuasca-simply-to-purge%2F&feature=player_embedded jaguar is a hunter... it is fierce, a warrior, a protector, it kills to protect its territory, its young, its hunting grounds. its a man killer, and i am not sure but i know that tigers and many other predators will kill their own kind even their own kinds young like male tigers do... i am not sure if jaguar feels hate or if animals feel or know hate... or anger... but i know that they know wrath... those feelings you mention if explored with much awareness can be known as wrathful compassion... the hate then becomes understood as something else as does the anger... padmasambhava the buddhist saint that brought buddhism to tibet catie... was called to a monestary because many hindu pandits had made a camp bellow the monestary and where using their superior logic to convert the buddhist monks... padmasambhava was considered a sorrcerer as well as the second coming of buddha... and was called to take care of this situation. he at and surveyed the scene and then in meditation became the mountain which the pandits had camped below, he became an avalanche and destroyed all of the pandits as well as the recent converts to Hinduism from the monastery. they all died... when chogyam trunpa rinpoche told this story he said that the moral of the story was that in buddhism there is no need to kill heratics... they will take care of that for you... which i always thought was a funny and clever example of buddhist paradoxical logistics... but hey thats buddhism which has never in my knowledge had anything to do with amazonain culture, cosmology or the drinking of ayahuasca!

$item.owner.firstName 2009-05-05T04:13:12Z Maya http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#d1ef2e2c-2364-43dd-aa19-55fc472d1f31 2009-05-05T04:07:46Z 2009-05-05T04:07:46Z

You may have experienced seeing the energy that sees your mortal enemy, as your mortal enemy. It may be the thing that fuels your negative feelings about that person. It also sounds like you were shown how much power this hateful and raging energy has. It is capable of hurting others as well as raging out of control. But the good thing might be that now you know what you are dealing with. Realizing that you feel compassion for those this energy attacked, and not feeling fear from it yourself, may be a sign that you're on your way to moving this energy out. Ask the medicine to guide you in moving this. The most effective way is love and forgiveness. Which sometimes can be easier said than done. But love and forgiveness is very powerful medicine in itself. One of the first steps towards that, is reminding yourself that there is light and love within you already. That is more powerful than any raging hating feeling you may experience. You can meditate or do something similar that allows you to concentrate and embrace all the good in you. Once you are consciously aware of love and are able to make decisions from that place, you will be able to overcome any obstacle and icky energy you encounter. Hope this helps! =) I wish you many blessings on your journey, Maya

Maya 2009-05-05T04:07:46Z Geert http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#93f0394b-58d8-49e6-9536-4a36022054ca 2009-05-05T04:06:04Z 2009-05-05T04:06:04Z

What is interesting to know is what has caused this anger.. It is only when you accept the nature of this source you can work with it. It is the actions outside the ceremony that will heal the relationship. In personal ritual you can strengthen your bonds and create protection, awareness of your own energy. Visions are powerfull tools and show what is, and what can be.. They are not a solution to anything.. It is my belief that the will for goodness and for healing situations is the driving force, your own spirit. You can heal yourself first, then heal others. With goodness and forgiveness in the back of your head.. If you have been done wrong by this person let it be, it has happened.. You can't change the past, only the way you look back at it.. When we sat around a fire that dissolved questionmarks a friend said: "Strange this life, how we live it forward but we experience it backward.." These roots can be healed, and you have the power in you, connect to your fire, your spirit.

Geert 2009-05-05T04:06:04Z catie http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#9d7e42c7-a120-4c44-adf1-1f914d830e5a 2009-05-05T03:53:47Z 2009-05-05T03:53:47Z

oh...one more thing. i definitely agree--don't _try_ to get rid of it. that's part of the trouble. the trying to get rid of it is what keeps you holding on to it. like--yikes, that anger is fucking scary i might kill someone and go to jail--get rid of it! and then somehow the getting rid of it...is more like repress and hide it! and it gets tucked away in some spot easily ignored until maybe it starts rotting your organs somewhere. ouch. more like...huge compassion and acceptance...for any feeling you have ever...

catie 2009-05-05T03:53:47Z catie http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#de904eb1-111c-4d37-ac28-56e6f77568b2 2009-05-05T03:44:23Z 2009-05-05T03:44:23Z

hmmm. i'm more experienced with meditation and satsang and such than with ayahuasca...so my reply is very much coming from that place and the mental map i've made that connects it all together for me...so my apologies if you don't dig this kind of stuff. but i have had an experience in a ceremony with some intense anger...later intense grief...no visions really...but lots of story about it. after really hating it all, being angry, sad, and lonely, all sorts of thoughts with big past and future implications really driving me deeper into it for a while...i ultimately was able to drop the story and drop into the sensations in my body. it just became a movement of energy..big emotional pain energy and crying with my whole body...a sort of process of allowing myself to feel what needed to be felt....and in feeling it...releasing it. so..the sense i get from your story...is maybe you are (were?) holding a whole lot of anger...perhaps not entirely derived from this relationship with your enemy...but...whoever...childhood stuff...karmic stuff...fucked up modern world sort of stuff. it's pretty reasonable that you might have some rage in there somewhere and never given yourself permission to experience it...because it's scary...because you have some idea you might hurt someone. and however it all works...maybe ayahuasca is giving you the gift of these visions to stimulate the rage that you need to allow yourself to experience in order to move some old stuck stuff. or she is moving that old stuck stuff which is manifesting as intense feelings of rage...and your most creative vision making mind is attaching it to the most convenient story available. seems like it was moving if you felt it...and you felt that fear of it....like she was helping you to experience your anger and move it on out....something you could not have done so easily on your own because that fear of hurting other people would always give you a reason to keep it at bay...thereby cooking up some kind of chronic illness somewhere down the line. you know? even western medical world says that anger is the most toxic emotion to be carrying around! anyways...hope that made some sense to you. i'm curious how you are feeling about your mortal enemy after all that....and whether the anger stayed with you after the ceremony. i suspect that desire for a little more softness towards this person will be easier after letting some of that dense heavy stuff move on through... good luck out there....

catie 2009-05-05T03:44:23Z $item.owner.firstName http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#8f76d92b-1962-48a4-acbd-e60570caf5a3 2009-05-05T02:02:35Z 2009-05-05T02:02:35Z

Ayahuasca has been used for war by many tribes, it has also been used for brujeria or malicious sorcery, it has also been used for murder using magical attacks on ones enemies... it has also been used for hunting and the killing of animals for sustenance... its been used out of hate and revenge, as well as greed... very succesfully in all cases I might add... if the mother of ayahausca is a snake... snakes have the world over been considered morally ambivalent... ive tried to communicate this to people for years... but all i ever get is a bunch of new age head wagging... ayahausca has been used traditionally to kill as well as to heal... TO KILL... and thats ok... whats not ok is to be in TOTAL AND ABSOLUTE DENILE OF THIS FACT!!! do some home work people... study... read your anthropology books for christ sakes... of coarse murder and killing via spiritual means is totally not ok... its bad karma brother... whoa... did you see that butterfly in your aura? tripppy.... unless of coarse its socially sanctioned then murder is considered justice... at any rate... justice and killing among tribal people as well as warfare is still to this day is a spiritual thing like everything else... the jivaro for example or shuar as they are also called still use natema ( what we call ayahuasca) for warfare. in meztiso cultures and amoung some tribes the moral dualism that came with colonization has made things a bit more black and white... tribal warfare and taking out competition is unjust... because well thats something that civilization does... just imagine... in a tribal society you could kill this enemy and it would be socially sanctioned all you would have to worry about is repercussions from the enemies friends and family and you would just be called a warrior not a murderer... unless of coarse this enemy was not a socially sanctioned enemy and was also a part of your community or kinship group... but then again even if he was duels between members of tribal communities were also socially sanctioned... look at the yamomami and their machette duels... ouch... in those tribes you could use your spiritual power and ability fueled and aided by ayahausca to kill this enemy... which by some standards would make you in some tribes or meztiso societies a brujo... but if you also did healing as well as harming that would make you a shaman as i understand it from a friend who studies with the shipibo... in socially sanctioned private justice cultures killing some one with the aid of ayahuasca would make you a warrior if the killing was just... if it was not it would make you a murderer... so fascinating! in our society of coarse especially the new age subcultures that have integrated ayahuasca into its circles... jut having those feelings and thoughts and that experience would make you a person who needs healing and cleansing... and maybe even a bad person! it would bee something to get rid of... me personally I wouldnt get rid of it... I would how ever attempt to understand it and not let it get the better of my will.. thats some powerful stuff there and its easy to let it over take you... and the consequences of letting that happen can be dire...

$item.owner.firstName 2009-05-05T02:02:35Z embrace http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#74e392bb-196f-41b8-aaa0-17105f650ead 2009-05-05T00:38:47Z 2009-05-05T00:38:47Z

i've heard about this thick dark substance before not only as something that others have seen during ceremony with ayahuasca but our teachers very high tibetan buddhist lamas have referred to it. this has been a great session and opportunity for you. you now have actually seen the substances of these emotions. you can use several methods to clear this energy/substance from your body/energy field and be rid once and for all of these emotions. time to get busy! many blessings for your efforts!

embrace 2009-05-05T00:38:47Z Michael SJ http://ayahuasca.tribe.net/thread/471cc059-4a81-41f1-91cd-093d968f8070#35eba7be-9bbe-4532-8035-4f70416059ec 2009-05-05T00:21:54Z 2009-05-05T00:21:54Z

I´ve read a lot of people talking about rainbows and butterflies and whatnot when discussing their experiences with ayahuasca, but I´ve never heard people discuss what I experienced the other night. I have a mortal enemy in my real life upon whom in previous sessions I have tried to work on understanding and forgiveness, but the other night when the thought of him came up in my session I was filled with a hatred and rage I have never felt before. It was so powerful I got up and left the circle, and as I sat outside with my head in my hands I could feel the rage coursing through me and I could see a caustic black and red venom dripping off my body and pooling around my feet. As I saw his face and thought of his family I could see these bloody red flashes erupt from where my vision touched them. This went on for the remainder of the ceremony and I was still feeling odd for several hours afterwards. I hear of people feeling fear of things they see in their visions, but I didn´t feel any fear for myself, just for those I was attacking. I know this sounds kind of crazy considering the average ayahuasca trip report, but has anyone else had a similar experience?

Michael SJ 2009-05-05T00:21:54Z