cough cough, spam, cough cough.....

do you mean don fidel? in tena?

wow, interesting site! everyone's going to jump on me for asking, but how come the yachaks' names aren't on the site? I looked on the "the team" or even fidel's name? it's so beautiful there! anybody would be very fortunate to go and volunteer or learn from those curanderos there.

you live in tena?

This is what I meant by "ayahuasca industry" in the previous post.

Dear embrace, Andy Grefa is quite common surname in this area. The names ARE mentioned on the site several times, both under RETREATS section and also on the pages with information about each of the retreats.

Thank you for your kind wishes, CG. Id also love to have more feedback from people here. But whats more important for me is to hear their words of thanks after and during work, face to face, and see them changed for better, and that was the case with all of the participants in the past. Actually, the term participant it is quite awkward, because they are all friends now.

As for the feedback from the shamans, I guess Don Casimiro would say simply BUENO or ALI in kichwa, nothing more, and Don Luis is also quite silent person. They live in another world, really.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback.

Im quite terrified when I hear here on the tribe about ceremonies with 20, 25 or even 30 people. The feathercrown retreats or apprenticeship are always for a very limited group of participants only, which assures that the healer can pay enough attention to each of the participants. One retreat is for no more than 8 and the other for no more than 10, and the Advanced shamanism course only for 4-5. I would never take 20 people just to have $5600 more. These limits allow more personal work and more friendly and family atmosphere.

I've known Wancho for 2 years. While I have no experience with his retreats, I know he's a humble person with a genuine passion for plant medicine.

"POWER OF THE WATERFALL"

wancho, who designed the retreat and came up with the concept?

For those who asked about feedback:

forums.ayahuasca.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php

innerspaceoutersound.blogspot.com/2...ml

So I have just returned from spending 3 months in Ecuador, where with Wancho's help I was able to find a healer to apprentice with. I have tremendous love and respect for him. Wancho, as is his nature has taken the high road and not responded to some of the nonsensical attacks and questions. Excuse me for a moment while I don my shadow mantle for a little trip down the low road...

Hello Jav. If memory serves me correctly, it was only a brief time ago when someone came to this tribe saying "Hi, I'm in Thailand. I'm moving to Peru to start an intentional community. By the way, what is ayahuasca?" And look at you now, my friend. Deputized. Policing the boards. I feel safe. And annoyed. Not by you personally, Jav. I have read many many posts of yours and generally appreciate the purity of your heart, the proactive way you apply your energy to move on your visions, and your presense in general. What I am annoyed by is that there is always someone who takes it upon themselves to step in and derail a post... pushing a person up against the ropes... in a position where they need to defend themselves and can no longer share. It is a position where a person can no longer give, but instead has to focus all energy to stop things from being taken.

May I suggest a new tribe, perhaps tribe.AyahuascaSniveling.com where we can go when we're feeling a need for drama or perhaps have a little extra negative energy we want to burn off? Maybe then we could keep this board true to its original intent in being one that supports our collective effort to heal through the medicine and share information, rather than throwing pebbles at our brothers and sisters.

Don't get me wrong... I LIKE it when things get intense on the boards. Disagreements are good. But 'cough, cough' right out of the gate? No seduction... no building of energy. No differing of opinions and then intensification in a natural way? Yawn. Collectively we have already ejaculated before we even got our clothes off. I came to this post to read about Ayahuasca in Ecuador, and instantly find myself reading the same post that all posts eventually degenerate to.

Addressing some of the allegations brought up in this post...

1) First, that pesky little entity called money. I am aware of what the shamans charge for ceremony, and what Wancho charges for his. Yes, the shamans get a much greater percentage. Embrace, I get offended every time you ask about the specific percentages. Often. Because you ask it often. Do you ever even type the question out... or have you programmed your F9 key so that you can simply hit it and it will auto-generate?

Agreements made between organizers and curanderos are their business, and not the worlds. Now, if you are going to participate in their business as a paying clientel, you do have a right to ask... but the public forum is not the place. Try private messaging. The right to ask is not the same as the right to know. Personally, if I was running a retreat center or organizing trips... I would tell anybody that asked such a question that they were not privy to the information. Sharing such details is a losing situation that sets one on the defensive where they have to begin detailing all expenses, outlining all the work they do, and justifying justifying justifying. What an energy drain. For those who have never run a business and have no point of reference, I do. I owned a coffee shop that had a line out the door every day and raked in a lot of money. I had minumum wage employees, some of who were quite convinced that I was becoming wealthy, and a couple who even quit because I would not grant them a pay raise. But I also had business expenses, and was quite astonished by how they added up. And I also had a second full time job that I was required to work because I made far far less than minumum wage running the coffee shop.

Bottom line, when you are evaluating an opportunity to study with the medicine and the price associated with such an opportunity... it should either work for you, or not. There is either perceived equality of value in the monetary exchange or not. It is that simple. Let us not resort to Brujeria (yes, you heard me correctly) and get jealous and envious. Personally, I am grateful for all medicinal centers that do genuine work in helping people transform their lives... even the one that everyone loves to whine about because it charges $2,000 for 10 days. I am not their target market. I will not find myself in their circle. But neither will I throw my darts at them, cursing myself more than I could ever curse them... donning gimp-suit with a chain of karma strangling me as I find myself perpetually poor, whining about money and the cost of the medicine... prosperity laughing at me in perpetual spin motion chasing my tail.

Let us break this cycle. To all my brothers and sisters who are doing the work of assisting others: I bless you. May you have open doors in your life. May you have prosperity. To those who find themselves doing math in their heads "30 people at $100 a day... lets see, thats 21k a week"... may I suggest using this as a mantra for at least a month. Your attention is in the wrong place.

2) Second, in reference to the "Ayahuasca Industry"... Sorry to disappoint you, friend. There is no ayahuasca industry in Ecuador. Count the retreat centers: zero. Currently there are curanderos who are gradually making shifts to be able to accomodate westerners, but only a few... and this is happening slowly. Two of these curanderos are Don Casmiro and Don Luis Andy whom Wancho has mentioned. Don Casmiro began seeing a slow influx of westerners a few years back after Gayle posted extensively about her experiences. As for Don Luis Andy, I was told by the curandero I apprenticed under that 6 months ago he did a ceremony for Don Luis, as he was not getting much work (as he lives a bit out there) and having financial problems, as were all members of his family. Then Wancho showed up in his life, bringing a trickle of westerners. Now Don Luis is in the process of doing some building to improve his humble facility and increase bunking spaces. When he works, his whole family does... and currently his whole family is in the process of being blessed. Recently he was able to buy his first refrigerator. Their life is turning around.

It will be a slow transition before Ecuador can handle more than a few ayahuasca tourists. There are many shamans. I have been told that in some regions there are as many brujos as healers... and even with the healers, almost all of them drink Trago (sugar cane alcohol) during ceremony... often times ending up drunk. In my experience, I ended up in a very remote region of Ecuador where every ceremony was done with indigenous people. In a couple ceremonies there were multiple shamans, some of whom got very drunk. A shaman drunk on ayahuasca and alcohol is not a pretty sight. I was lucky in that there was someone sober leading the ceremonies I participated in. I cannot imagine being in a ceremony where the one leading it is drunk. My advice for any who wish to go to Ecuador is to go through Wancho, as he has been down there a year doing medicine with many many shamans. He has put himself at great risk and been in more than a few bad situations to find the good healers. And he has found some absolutely exceptional ones.

3) I think it is a good thing if Wancho doesn't list the shamans he works with on his site. It is actually very wise not to. As mentioned in #2, Ecuador is not ready for an instant influx of tourism. It needs to increase gradually. Right now it is pretty much maxed out, though as I have also mentioned, some healers are making adjustments to accomodate more people. My hope is that tourism grows in a steady and organic fashion, without Ecuador being the next hot spot. If a measily number such as 15 people decide that "Hey, I have been to the feathercrown site and really resonate with the fantasy I have built up in my head about Don Luis. I think I will go see him August 1" -- please expect to either sleep two-to-a smaller than single bed, or wake up wet about half of the mornings in Ecuador... because you are sleeping outside and it rains often.

4) As for such postings being put under 'events and listings,' does anyone ever use that tab? I never have. The posting rate on this tribe is very slow, generally not more than a couple a day, and the forum can handle an occassional post about a retreat or converence. I think that it adds value to post such things in the general forum. Were it not for people doing so, I would not know nearly as much about the ayahuasca industry in Peru as I do. I would not know its history. I would not know the pioneers. 'Alan' and 'Peter' would be just be boring user names from anonymous people. No, my friends... if this is to be a real community, then it is of benefit to know the people in the front lines. If I have the right to post any non-spam topic relevant to ayahuasca I wish... even nonsense that wastes your time such as "Hi, I have zero friends and have never done ayahuasca before. Where can I do it in Winchester, Virginia?" -- then do not others have the right to post things that may actually be of value?

I would not have found Wancho were it not for a posting he did about 6 months ago that was in the general forum section. My life has been changed for the better. I have received an incredible amount of healing because I saw his posting in the general section. I know I am only one person, and my misery or happiness may not be of concern to you... but to me my state of well being is of great importance. Wancho has helped me change my life in a very direct manner. A question for all the discussion forum patrol deputies: How many people over the last week have you given enough assistance to that they could say this or would say this about you?

Excuse me while I shapeshift back into myself.....urg.

This post (talking about my post) is vomit. I rarely write on this forum, and for a simple reason. It is easy for me to get emotionally worked up. Thank you for bearing with me as I have gotten this out of my system.

Jav and Embrace, I appologize for any offense I may have caused in specific verbal retaliation against your comments.